--00000000000087058d05a7e8689b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 6:04 AM Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: > Am Freitag, 12. Juni 2020, 05:11:31 CEST schrieb Nate Graham: > > However I think there is a bigger challenge that just the technical > > issues. My interactions in bug reports have been quite negative, I have > > to say, and I don't feel like the developer culture is very welcoming > > right now. > I'm reading in here late, sorry. It takes two to tango. I have not had negative experience with KDE PIM > people. > > And Nate, if I saw you advocating to have my KDE software removed from KDE- > centric distributions (even more when triggered because some proprietary- > privacy-screwing service support being broken, is that what KDE is about?) > like in https://phabricator.kde.org/T12486 , that would magically lower > the > quality of my interaction in bug reports with you as well. And no, this is > not > about who started. > Nate was acting there on behalf of Kubuntu, since we were putting out an LTS last time. We get so many user issues with PIM, especially with the Gmail situation. Nobody blamed the KDE PIM devels, but as a distro, Kubuntu has to act to offer our users the most friendly, welcoming environment. We can't ship software that won't work for a large swath of users. KDE PIM is packaged and available as always. Sadly, we had to drop Amarok until it returns to the new Kf5 world. It is our policy to offer all the quality KDE software with the fewest patches possible, and Nate has been a huge help in that effort. Please, let us keep this a community working together, not against each > other, > and one showing respect to each others efforts. All of Plasma, KDEPIM, > KDevelop etc. pp. have lots of issues. We could be bitching about each > others > products all day long and where their developers have not instantly cared > about our very important issues and our oh so very clever and well done > solution/fixes/improvements, with all their politeness, spending all of > their > time just for us, or where we see them going wrong ways and how they fail > to > meet other products quality and features. > He, one could use Gnome, Visual Studio Code, Thunderbird. etc. pp., who > needs > KDE!!1! > > I am missing what this email thread here should achieve, despite being > demotivating for those whose product is talked about or even bad-mouthing > them. We all know there are big and small flaws. Those get fixed by people > working on them. Not by people showing off their knowledge that there are > flaws. And I doubt the developers of the products do not know about the > flaws. > They just do not have the resources left to handle them, given resources > are > limited. > > And when you compare KDEPIM to Evolution and Thunderbird, you also want to > compare the current resources behind. Which of those products has > developers > behind that work on them during paid jobs, not only in their leisure time? > > I am happy to be able to use KMail, all the years. > Unfortunately I have not, and it used to be my favorite application. But what to put on the ISO is not personal favorite or not, but about what is the best experience for users. If you want to help KDEPIM, but cannot become the needed qualified > developer > to help by being another resource yourself, see to make business plans > instead > to organize the needed resources to get more funded developers. If you > also > cannot do that, bad luck. World will not be improved by you. > PIM is more complex given all the various data and service specifications > and > various buggy implementations of them which have to be handled to please > user > expectations. And you have to be able to also manage massive amounts of > data > without annoying the user by waiting times. It's not what your beginner/ > amateur developer can easily do. KDEPIM thankfully still has some > professional > developers around who invest their leisure time now and then. I am > thankful > they do, so KDEPIM is not dead. From my few bug reports in the last > months, > some of them were fixed the other day or were already before. > > Cheers > Friedrich > -- http://about.me/valoriez - pronouns: she/her --00000000000087058d05a7e8689b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 6:04 AM Friedrich= W. H. Kossebau <kossebau@kde.org> wrote:
Am Freitag, 12. Juni 2020, 05:11:31 CEST schrieb Na= te Graham:
> However I think there is a bigger challenge that just the technical > issues. My interactions in bug reports have been quite negative, I hav= e
> to say, and I don't feel like the developer culture is very welcom= ing
> right now.

I'm reading in here= late, sorry.=C2=A0

It takes two to tango. I have not had negative experience with KDE PIM peop= le.

And Nate, if I saw you advocating to have my KDE software removed from KDE-=
centric distributions (even more when triggered because some proprietary- privacy-screwing service support being broken, is that what KDE is about?) =
like in https://phabricator.kde.org/T12486 , that would magica= lly lower the
quality of my interaction in bug reports with you as well. And no, this is = not
about who started.

Nate was acting ther= e on behalf of Kubuntu, since we were putting out an LTS last time. We get = so many user issues with PIM, especially with the Gmail situation. Nobody b= lamed the KDE PIM devels, but as a distro, Kubuntu has to act to offer our = users the most friendly, welcoming environment. We can't ship software = that won't work for a large swath of users.

KD= E PIM is packaged and available as always. Sadly, we had to drop Amarok unt= il it returns to the new Kf5 world. It is our policy to offer all the quali= ty KDE software with the fewest patches possible, and Nate has been a huge = help in that effort.

Please, let us keep this a community working together, not against each oth= er,
and one showing respect to each others efforts. All of Plasma, KDEPIM,
KDevelop etc. pp. have lots of issues. We could be bitching about each othe= rs
products all day long and where their developers have not instantly cared <= br> about our very important issues and our oh so very clever and well done solution/fixes/improvements, with all their politeness, spending all of the= ir
time just for us, or where we see them going wrong ways and how they fail t= o
meet other products quality and features.
He, one could use Gnome, Visual Studio Code, Thunderbird. etc. pp., who nee= ds
KDE!!1!

I am missing what this email thread here should achieve, despite being
demotivating for those whose product is talked about or even bad-mouthing <= br> them. We all know there are big and small flaws. Those get fixed by people =
working on them. Not by people showing off their knowledge that there are <= br> flaws. And I doubt the developers of the products do not know about the fla= ws.
They just do not have the resources left to handle them, given resources ar= e
limited.

And when you compare KDEPIM to Evolution and Thunderbird, you also want to =
compare the current resources behind. Which of those products has developer= s
behind that work on them during paid jobs, not only in their leisure time?<= br>
I am happy to be able to use KMail, all the years.
Unfortunately I have not, and it used to be my favorite applica= tion. But what to put on the ISO is not personal favorite or not, but about= what is the best experience for users.=C2=A0

If you want to help KDEPIM, but cannot become the needed qualified develope= r
to help by being another resource yourself, see to make business plans inst= ead
to organize the needed resources to get more funded developers. If you also=
cannot do that, bad luck. World will not be improved by you.
PIM is more complex given all the various data and service specifications a= nd
various buggy implementations of them which have to be handled to please us= er
expectations. And you have to be able to also manage massive amounts of dat= a
without annoying the user by waiting times. It's not what your beginner= /
amateur developer can easily do. KDEPIM thankfully still has some professio= nal
developers around who invest their leisure time now and then. I am thankful=
they do, so KDEPIM is not dead. From my few bug reports in the last months,=
some of them were fixed the other day or were already before.

Cheers
Friedrich
=C2=A0
--
http://about.me/valoriez=C2=A0- pronouns: she= /her
--00000000000087058d05a7e8689b--