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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: FSF leadership
From: David Cahalane <davidc () tuta ! io>
Date: 2019-09-19 8:14:38
Message-ID: Lp7_HIv--3-1 () tuta ! io
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KDE would be the first organization not directly linked to FSF to issue a public \
statement on this. It would also come over a week after RMS' statements gained media \
attention, and several days after his resignation.
If we wanted to voice our desire for a more open FOSS community, we should have done \
it before RMS resigned. OpenSUSE did exactly that, issuing a statement on Sept.14 \
simply arguing that free software must be free of abuse. No mention of Stallman, the \
FSF, or MIT.
Making a statement similar to Red Hat's would be seen by the FSF as an unwelcome \
intrusion into an internal discussion. A statement simply supporting the FSF could be \
misconstrued as mourning the loss of RMS.
The worst thing we could do is draw attention to what was said at Akademy 2009. If we \
didn't take enough action then, that is our failure. Ten years later, associating \
ourselves with those remarks can only cause undue harm to KDE.
I'm glad to see RMS go, and I sincerely hope FSF can change into a more inclusive and \
more effective organization. I know many in KDE feel the same. But it's not our place \
to put additional pressure on the FSF at this time. They already took a big step \
forward by getting rid of RMS, even though it may have been personally difficult for \
many of them.
From a communications standpoint, the time for our comment has long since passed.
Sep 19, 2019, 04:08 by jens@ohyran.se:
> I disagree with a lot of the ideological/sociological statements in
> your comment, but will focus on the core point:
>
> What we're suggesting is chosing someone that is objectively BETTER for
> the FSF. The post isn't only technical in nature, but instead one of
> community leadership, communication and philosophical guidance.
>
> With that in mind looking for the leader to better represent the FSF,
> grow the Free Software movement, and improve its standing - makes the
> choice for diversification a clear and simple one
> (and that is ignoring the other arguments for those of us who do not
> share your specific ideological/sociological beliefs)
>
> /Jens
>
>
> tor 2019-09-19 klockan 09:54 +0200 skrev Sven Brauch:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Thursday, 19 September 2019 04:59:09 CEST Valorie Zimmerman wrote:
> > > Accordingly, I would like us (the KDE Community) to advise them to
> > > diversify their Board, as RedHat has done here:
> >
> > I am against diversifying for diversifying's sake. It's something
> > that is
> > already way too prevalent in today's society.
> >
>
>
>
> > Let's please pick the best
> > person for the job, regardless of race, gender, or whatever, and
> > let's
> > especially *not* write letters to others recommending them to do
> > otherwise.
> >
> > Picking people with the argument of diversity achieves the exact
> > opposite of
> > what you want: it leads to people which are *worse* at their job than
> > the
> > competitors being selected for it. Thus doing this systematically
> > gives an
> > actual, real reason for prejudice against "people with $property in
> > $position".
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Sven
> >
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<div style="16px"><div style="16px">KDE would be the first organization not directly
linked to FSF to issue a
public statement on this. It would also come over a week after RMS'
statements gained media attention, and several days after his
resignation.<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">If we wanted to \
voice our desire for a more open FOSS community, we should have done it before RMS \
resigned. OpenSUSE did exactly that, issuing a statement on Sept.14 simply arguing \
that free software must be free of abuse. No mention of Stallman, the FSF, or \
MIT.<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">Making a statement \
similar to Red Hat's would be seen by the FSF as an unwelcome intrusion into an \
internal discussion. A statement simply supporting the FSF could be misconstrued as \
mourning the loss of RMS.<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">The \
worst thing we could do is draw attention to what was said at Akademy 2009. If we \
didn't take enough action then, that is our failure. Ten years later, associating \
ourselves with those remarks can only cause undue harm to KDE.<br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left">I'm glad to see RMS go, \
and I sincerely hope FSF can change into a more inclusive and more effective \
organization. I know many in KDE feel the same. But it's not our place to put \
additional pressure on the FSF at this time. They already took a big step forward by \
getting rid of RMS, even though it may have been personally difficult for many of \
them.<br></div><div style="16px" text-align="left"><br></div><div style="16px" \
text-align="left">From a communications standpoint, the time for our comment has long \
since passed.<br></div></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">Sep 19, 2019, 04:08 by \
jens@ohyran.se:<br></div><blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px \
solid #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;"><div style="16px">I disagree \
with a lot of the ideological/sociological statements in<br></div><div \
style="16px">your comment, but will focus on the core point:<br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">What we're suggesting is chosing someone \
that is objectively BETTER for<br></div><div style="16px">the FSF. The post isn't \
only technical in nature, but instead one of<br></div><div style="16px">community \
leadership, communication and philosophical guidance. <br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">With that in mind looking for the leader to \
better represent the FSF,<br></div><div style="16px">grow the Free Software movement, \
and improve its standing - makes the<br></div><div style="16px">choice for \
diversification a clear and simple one<br></div><div style="16px">(and that is \
ignoring the other arguments for those of us who do not<br></div><div \
style="16px">share your specific ideological/sociological beliefs)<br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">/Jens<br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">tor 2019-09-19 \
klockan 09:54 +0200 skrev Sven Brauch:<br></div><blockquote><div \
style="16px">Hi,<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">On Thursday, \
19 September 2019 04:59:09 CEST Valorie Zimmerman wrote:<br></div><div \
style="16px">> Accordingly, I would like us (the KDE Community) to advise them \
to<br></div><div style="16px">> diversify their Board, as RedHat has done \
here:<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div style="16px">I am against \
diversifying for diversifying's sake. It's something<br></div><div style="16px">that \
is <br></div><div style="16px">already way too prevalent in today's \
society.<br></div></blockquote><div style="16px"><br></div><div \
style="16px"><br></div><blockquote><div style="16px">Let's please pick the best \
<br></div><div style="16px">person for the job, regardless of race, gender, or \
whatever, and<br></div><div style="16px">let's <br></div><div style="16px">especially \
*not* write letters to others recommending them to do<br></div><div \
style="16px">otherwise.<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div \
style="16px">Picking people with the argument of diversity achieves the \
exact<br></div><div style="16px">opposite of <br></div><div style="16px">what you \
want: it leads to people which are *worse* at their job than<br></div><div \
style="16px">the <br></div><div style="16px">competitors being selected for it. Thus \
doing this systematically<br></div><div style="16px">gives an <br></div><div \
style="16px">actual, real reason for prejudice against "people with $property in \
<br></div><div style="16px">$position".<br></div><div style="16px"><br></div><div \
style="16px">Greetings,<br></div><div \
style="16px">Sven<br></div></blockquote></blockquote><div style="16px"><br></div> \
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