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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Telemetry Policy - Remaining Questions
From: Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek () kde ! org>
Date: 2018-04-02 23:20:39
Message-ID: CAOj7QQ3CsF_iga-G4xab9W8EeAQ8MaUJZcZH-+WqDqA90XiQPQ () mail ! gmail ! com
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On 2 April 2018 at 22:56, Lydia Pintscher <lydia@kde.org> wrote:
> Hey Jaroslaw :)
>
> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 10:28 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek@kde.org> wrote:
> > Thanks for reminding me Lydia
> >
> > I've not forgotten this. While there's progress I do still see this as a
> > pilot stage and do not think we're in a hurry given telemetry is
> something
> > "extra" for a project development, not a core feature of any product.
>
> We are in a hurry now. We're waiting for projects to be able to start
> using it and get us valuable insights about how our software is used.
> We've been on it since last Akademy. Let's get it finished :)
>
> > Below I am referring to this version:
> > https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Policies/Telemetry
> _Policy&oldid=78057
> >
> > tl;dr: Why discussing: Any deep change and limitation to projects'
> freedom
> > needs to bring substantial benefits over drawbacks. Level of complexity
> of
> > the contract for a project or individual developer needs to be balanced
> by
> > real (not hypothetical) benefits.
>
> The benefits here for KDE are:
> * we have a
>
> better understanding of our userbase leading hopefully to
> better software
> * we have a better understanding of our userbase leading hopefully to
> better marketing
> * we have a clear policy we can point our users to that explains how
> we are handling their data and that is in line with our vision/what we
> stand for.
>
> > I've studied the wiki page more in depth and I have these points where
> I'd
> > like to see improvement. This is based on my experience, not a list of
> quick
> > ideas.
> >
> >
>
> https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#
>
> Thank you! Volker is probably best equipped to answer these.
>
> > That said: I will nod to the concept of "Minimalism", it is all classic
> > property of telemetry. I think I've seen them in other projects too.
> > I'd just say, let's not make all this more limited than anyone wants it
> to
> > be.
>
> Where is it too limited? Please keep in mind that we've set
>
> privacy as
> a core part of our vision and the current goals.
>
Lydia,
It's a core part but still a part and can't contradict, say, with the
Freedom part.
Please see the list of limitations:
https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#
(in my opinion that's not a "nice to haves" but requirements needed so we
can even call the whole thing "telemetry")
I am asking for an alternative approaches, Volker once mentioned there are
some.
We need them to we move forward.
In the meantime my stack runs just well, people that use IDs are even given
right to remove their data, something that's *not* going to be possible
with the proposed vision. Someone would convince me otherwise.
--
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
KEXI:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
http://twitter.com/kexi_project https://facebook.com/kexi.project
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 April 2018 at 22:56, Lydia \
Pintscher <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lydia@kde.org" \
target="_blank">lydia@kde.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hey Jaroslaw :)<br> <span \
class="gmail-m_2515312111728031000gmail-"><br> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 10:28 PM, \
Jaroslaw Staniek <<a href="mailto:staniek@kde.org" \
target="_blank">staniek@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br> > Thanks for reminding me \
Lydia<br> ><br>
> I've not forgotten this. While there's progress I do still see this as \
a<br> > pilot stage and do not think we're in a hurry given telemetry is \
something<br> > "extra" for a project development, not a core feature of \
any product.<br> <br>
</span>We are in a hurry now. We're waiting for projects to be able to start<br>
using it and get us valuable insights about how our software is used.<br>
We've been on it since last Akademy. Let's get it finished :)<br>
<span class="gmail-m_2515312111728031000gmail-"><br>
> Below I am referring to this version:<br>
> <a href="https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Policies/Telemetry_Policy&oldid=78057" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.kde.org/inde<wbr>x.php?title=Policies/Telemetry<wbr>_Policy&oldid=78057</a><br>
><br>
> tl;dr: Why discussing: Any deep change and limitation to projects' \
freedom<br> > needs to bring substantial benefits over drawbacks. Level of \
complexity of<br> > the contract for a project or individual developer needs to be \
balanced by<br> > real (not hypothetical) benefits.<br>
<br>
</span>The benefits here for KDE are:<br>
* we have a <div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;display:inline"></div>better \
understanding of our userbase leading hopefully to<br> better software<br>
* we have a better understanding of our userbase leading hopefully to<br>
better marketing<br>
* we have a clear policy we can point our users to that explains how<br>
we are handling their data and that is in line with our vision/what we<br>
stand for.<br>
<span class="gmail-m_2515312111728031000gmail-"><br>
> I've studied the wiki page more in depth and I have these points where \
I'd<br> > like to see improvement. This is based on my experience, not a list \
of quick<br> > ideas.<br>
><br>
><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;display:inline"></div> \
<a href="https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://community.kde.org/Talk<wbr>:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#</a><br>
<br>
</span>Thank you! Volker is probably best equipped to answer these.<br>
<span class="gmail-m_2515312111728031000gmail-"><br>
> That said: I will nod to the concept of "Minimalism", it is all \
classic<br> > property of telemetry. I think I've seen them in other projects \
too.<br> > I'd just say, let's not make all this more limited than anyone \
wants it to<br> > be.<br>
<br>
</span>Where is it too limited? Please keep in mind that we've set <div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;display:inline"></div>privacy \
as<br> a core part of our vision and the current \
goals.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">Lydia, </div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">It's a core part but \
still a part and can't contradict, say, with the Freedom part.</div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">Please \
see the list of limitations: <div class="gmail_default" \
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:no \
rmal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t \
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-colo \
r:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;font-family:monospace,monospace;display:inline"></div><span \
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:nor \
mal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spac \
ing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wor \
d-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span> \
</span></span><a href="https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" \
style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:no \
rmal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spa \
cing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;wo \
rd-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">https://community.kde.org/Talk<wbr>:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#</a></div></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">(in my \
opinion that's not a "nice to haves" but requirements needed so we can \
even call the whole thing "telemetry")</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default"><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">I am asking for an \
alternative approaches, Volker once mentioned there are some.</div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">We need \
them to we move forward.</div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace, \
monospace"><br></font></div><div class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace, \
monospace">In the meantime my stack runs just well, people that use IDs are even \
given right to remove their data, something that's *not* going to be possible \
with the proposed vision. Someone would convince me otherwise.</font><br></div><div \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div \
class="gmail_default">-- <br></div></div><div \
class="gmail-m_2515312111728031000gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div>regards, Jaroslaw Staniek<br><br>KDE:<br>: A world-wide network of \
software engineers, artists, writers, translators<br>: and facilitators committed to \
Free Software development - <a href="http://kde.org" \
target="_blank">http://kde.org</a><br>KEXI:<br>: A visual database apps builder - <a \
href="http://calligra.org/kexi" target="_blank">http://calligra.org/kexi</a><br> \
<a href="http://twitter.com/kexi_project" \
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kexi_<wbr>project</a> <a \
href="https://facebook.com/kexi.project" \
target="_blank">https://facebook.com/<wbr>kexi.project</a><br>Qt Certified \
Specialist:<br>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek" \
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/<wbr>jstaniek</a></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
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