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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Telemetry Policy - Remaining Questions
From: Jaroslaw Staniek <staniek () kde ! org>
Date: 2018-04-02 20:28:10
Message-ID: CAOj7QQ1h-gOAS0w9Y7EtXS=6uu=qwKymHCNiV6R3A6nKgvmjyg () mail ! gmail ! com
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On 1 April 2018 at 15:41, Lydia Pintscher <lydia@kde.org> wrote:
> Hey folks :)
>
> We really need to wrap this up now.
>
> We need the data and we need the
> policy in place. It's holding us back from learning more about our
> users and making our software better. That's not good.
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Volker Krause <vkrause@kde.org> wrote:
> > So, I see the following possible ways forward:
> > (1) We accept the policy in its current spirit, and Kexi complies with
> it (if
> > necessary after some transition period).
>
> This would be the ideal way forward and the right thing to do.
>
> > (2) We accept the policy in its current spirit, and Kexi is exempt from
> it.
>
> As sebas said this is bad communication-wise. But if Kexi can't or
> doesn't want to comply that's the next best option.
>
> > (3) We make the policy opt-in, ie. using it merely as an extra quality
> > criteria for the applications wanting to follow it.
>
> I don't believe this is an option that's in line with our vision.
>
> > (4) We give up on the idea of regulating telemetry, rolling back on the
> > decision from Akademy.
>
> I don't think that's an acceptable option either because we need to
> get a better understanding of how our software is used in order to
> make it better.
>
> Jaroslav: I think you need to make a choice now for Kexi. We can't let
> it sit and hope it goes away ;-)
>
Thanks for reminding me Lydia
I've not forgotten this. While there's progress I do still see this as a
pilot stage and do not think we're in a hurry given telemetry is something
"extra" for a project development, not a core feature of any product.
Below I am referring to this version: https://community.
kde.org/index.php?title=Policies/Telemetry_Policy&oldid=78057
tl;dr: Why discussing: Any deep change and limitation to projects' freedom
needs to bring substantial benefits over drawbacks. Level of complexity of
the contract for a project or individual developer needs to be balanced by
real (not hypothetical) benefits.
I've studied the wiki page more in depth and I have these points where I'd
like to see improvement. This is based on my experience, not a list of
quick ideas.
https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#
That said: I will nod to the concept of "Minimalism", it is all classic
property of telemetry. I think I've seen them in other projects too.
I'd just say, let's not make all this more limited than anyone wants it to
be.
--
regards, Jaroslaw Staniek
KDE:
: A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators
: and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org
KEXI:
: A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi
http://twitter.com/kexi_project https://facebook.com/kexi.project
Qt Certified Specialist:
: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 April 2018 at 15:41, Lydia \
Pintscher <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lydia@kde.org" \
target="_blank">lydia@kde.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid \
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hey folks :)<br> <br>
We really need to wrap this up now. <div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small;display:inline"></div>We \
need the data and we need the<br> policy in place. It's holding us back from \
learning more about our<br> users and making our software better. That's not \
good.<br> <span class="m_5773732915789547592gmail-"><br>
On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Volker Krause <<a href="mailto:vkrause@kde.org" \
target="_blank">vkrause@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br> > So, I see the following \
possible ways forward:<br> > (1) We accept the policy in its current spirit, and \
Kexi complies with it (if<br> > necessary after some transition period).<br>
<br>
</span>This would be the ideal way forward and the right thing to do.<br>
<span class="m_5773732915789547592gmail-"><br>
> (2) We accept the policy in its current spirit, and Kexi is exempt from it.<br>
<br>
</span>As sebas said this is bad communication-wise. But if Kexi can't or<br>
doesn't want to comply that's the next best option.<br>
<span class="m_5773732915789547592gmail-"><br>
> (3) We make the policy opt-in, ie. using it merely as an extra quality<br>
> criteria for the applications wanting to follow it.<br>
<br>
</span>I don't believe this is an option that's in line with our vision.<br>
<span class="m_5773732915789547592gmail-"><br>
> (4) We give up on the idea of regulating telemetry, rolling back on the<br>
> decision from Akademy.<br>
<br>
</span>I don't think that's an acceptable option either because we need \
to<br> get a better understanding of how our software is used in order to<br>
make it better.<br>
<br>
Jaroslav: I think you need to make a choice now for Kexi. We can't let<br>
it sit and hope it goes away ;-)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">Thanks \
for reminding me Lydia</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">I've not forgotten this. \
While there's progress I do still see this as a pilot stage and do not think \
we're in a hurry given telemetry is something "extra" for a project \
development, not a core feature of any product.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">Below I \
am referring to this version: <a \
href="https://community.kde.org/index.php?title=Policies/Telemetry_Policy&oldid=78057" \
target="_blank">https://community.<wbr>kde.org/index.php?title=<wbr>Policies/Telemetry_Policy&<wbr>oldid=78057</a></div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">tl;dr: \
Why discussing: Any deep change and limitation to projects' freedom needs to \
bring substantial benefits over drawbacks. Level of complexity of the contract for a \
project or individual developer needs to be balanced by real (not hypothetical) \
benefits. </div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">I've studied the wiki \
page more in depth and I have these points where I'd like to see improvement. \
This is based on my experience, not a list of quick ideas.</div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default"><font face="monospace, monospace"><a \
href="https://community.kde.org/Talk:Policies/Telemetry_Policy#" \
target="_blank">https://community.kde.org/<wbr>Talk:Policies/Telemetry_<wbr>Policy#</a></font><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small"><br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">That \
said: I will nod to the concept of "Minimalism", it is all classic property \
of telemetry. I think I've seen them in other projects too.<br></div><div \
class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace;font-size:small">I'd \
just say, let's not make all this more limited than anyone wants it to \
be.</div></div><div><br></div>-- <br><div \
class="m_5773732915789547592gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div \
dir="ltr"><div>regards, Jaroslaw Staniek<br><br>KDE:<br>: A world-wide network of \
software engineers, artists, writers, translators<br>: and facilitators committed to \
Free Software development - <a href="http://kde.org" \
target="_blank">http://kde.org</a><br>KEXI:<br>: A visual database apps builder - <a \
href="http://calligra.org/kexi" target="_blank">http://calligra.org/kexi</a><br> \
<a href="http://twitter.com/kexi_project" \
target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kexi_<wbr>project</a> <a \
href="https://facebook.com/kexi.project" \
target="_blank">https://facebook.com/<wbr>kexi.project</a><br>Qt Certified \
Specialist:<br>: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek" \
target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/<wbr>jstaniek</a></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
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