[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: kde-community
Subject: Re: Big Hairy Audacious Goal: Privacy Software
From: Umberto Tozzato <umbertotozzato () gmail ! com>
Date: 2017-08-18 21:00:32
Message-ID: CAHGoztYGV8TdKd=s9h8VHT7isM0cbBSha0O0w1LmpeFvV7VtQw () mail ! gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]
I'm an outsider, so sorry for the intermission, but i think Sebastian goal
is the single most important of all, so I wanted to throw my 2cents.
For several reasons:
- Gnome totally gave up on privacy. They are "integrated" into the
"clouds", and doesn't seems to care.
- It's a real issue. One that nobody so far took to heart seriously enough
IMO
- It's in the media and will become even bigger in the coming years
- starting early it's always a good thing, and having a DE who focuses on
it can spawn other project into focusing themselves into it
BUT, I'd go a little deeper:
- it's not just privacy, it's doing the same things you could do with - say
Google Drive - but with no man-in-the-middle
- also very important is informing the users. Sure, the target user of KDE
is probably aware of the problem, but sometimes you need to be pedantic.
It's like starting a diet where you need a certain amounts of diligence.
Clouds services are delicious cakes, easy to consume and tasty. A privacy
focused program will probably never be as juicy as those (after all, the
amount of ppl working at - say Google Docs - is order of magnitude bigger
compared to LibreOffice), so the choice cannot be based on practicality,
rather on self preservation (eg: you must invert the "path of least
resistance", and impose your will on the issue).
Goodbye and keep up the good job!
--
Umberto
On Aug 18, 2017 18:14, "Sebastian K=C3=BCgler" <sebas@kde.org> wrote:
Hi all,
I spent some time thinking and working on a proposal for the big hairy
audacious goal (1), the goal that the KDE community sets for itself to
strive for in the next five years. (Context: re-read the thread started
by Kevin with the subject "Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious
Goals for Itself".
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Hairy_Audacious_Goal
I'll try to keep this email short, but I guess I won't be able to,
given scope, importance, complexity and the general mess in my head
regarding this topic.
What I wanted to do...
I wanted to write a goal that is snappy to read, easy to understand,
engaging, worthwhile and measurable. What I came up with so far is:
"In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"
Problem with this is: Arguable, this is already the case today, so it
sucks as a goal since it allows us to do or change nothing, it's not
measurable, and I haven't figured it out how to make it measurable.
It's simply too vague.
Alright, so I sat down and tried to make it more concrete, by adding
lots of bullet points and thoughts, but I don't think it's much better.
I'll post them here:
KDE software protects and enables users privacy by:
- During normal usage it doesn't leak information to other users or
online services when this is not expected to happen
- Examples: Typing into KRunner or using the desktop search will
not produce artifacts online, but downloading new wallpapers from
the Store may lead to the user leaving traces, this is expectable
and reasonable
- KDE Tools provide sound and state-of-the-art methods for using
private communication, such as encrypted communication with other
services. Examples:
- Communication and data exchange with online services uses SSL
encryption (or similar)
- KMail offers well-integrated GPG encryption and makes it easy and
straight-forward to use encryption to talk to mail servers, it
works well with a number of privacy-respecting email service
providers
- KDE software covers most use-cases to allow the user to privately
communicate and store his per personal information on services that
are known to protect the user's privacy
- top notch support for self-hosted email, file storage, cloud
storage, collaborative editing, file sharing
Measuring (this is *really* lacking):
- what the press writes about us
- what our users think (online fora, polls, e.g.)
- own website promotes privacy (is this central to our communication?)
Tools (can be made more concrete once the above points are fleshed out):
- strategy promotes privacy down into details, see the above
- collaboration with EFF, other organisations (Whonix, Tor, ...?)
So, I could use some help with this, in the form of how this can be
structured, in what form it will be useful, more ambitious, and very
importantly measurable: I want us to be able to sit down in two years
and check: Are we on track? Do we need to change our approach? Do we
need to work harder? And of course: Did we achieve our goal?
Your thoughts and input?
--
sebas
http://vizZzion.org =E2=A6=BF http://www.kde.org
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<div dir="auto"><div>I'm an outsider, so sorry for the intermission, but i think \
Sebastian goal is the single most important of all, so I wanted to throw my \
2cents.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">For several reasons:</div><div \
dir="auto">- Gnome totally gave up on privacy. They are "integrated" into \
the "clouds", and doesn't seems to care.</div><div dir="auto">- \
It's a real issue. One that nobody so far took to heart seriously enough \
IMO</div><div dir="auto">- It's in the media and will become even bigger in the \
coming years</div><div dir="auto">- starting early it's always a good thing, and \
having a DE who focuses on it can spawn other project into focusing themselves into \
it</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">BUT, I'd go a little \
deeper:</div><div dir="auto">- it's not just privacy, it's doing the same \
things you could do with - say Google Drive - but with no man-in-the-middle</div><div \
dir="auto">- also very important is informing the users. Sure, the target user of KDE \
is probably aware of the problem, but sometimes you need to be pedantic. It's \
like starting a diet where you need a certain amounts of diligence. Clouds services \
are delicious cakes, easy to consume and tasty. A privacy focused program will \
probably never be as juicy as those (after all, the amount of ppl working at - say \
Google Docs - is order of magnitude bigger compared to LibreOffice), so the choice \
cannot be based on practicality, rather on self preservation (eg: you must invert the \
"path of least resistance", and impose your will on the issue).</div><div \
dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Goodbye and keep up the good job!</div><div \
dir="auto">--</div><div dir="auto">Umberto</div><div dir="auto"><div \
class="gmail_extra" dir="auto"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Aug 18, 2017 18:14, \
"Sebastian Kügler" <<a \
href="mailto:sebas@kde.org">sebas@kde.org</a>> wrote:<br \
type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br> <br>
I spent some time thinking and working on a proposal for the big hairy<br>
audacious goal (1), the goal that the KDE community sets for itself to<br>
strive for in the next five years. (Context: re-read the thread started<br>
by Kevin with the subject "Proposal: Have the Community Set Ambitious<br>
Goals for Itself".<br>
<br>
[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Hairy_Audacious_Goal" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Big_Hairy_Audacious_Goal</a><br> \
<br> I'll try to keep this email short, but I guess I won't be able to,<br>
given scope, importance, complexity and the general mess in my head<br>
regarding this topic.<br>
<br>
What I wanted to do...<br>
<br>
I wanted to write a goal that is snappy to read, easy to understand,<br>
engaging, worthwhile and measurable. What I came up with so far is:<br>
<br>
"In 5 years, KDE software enables and promotes privacy"<br>
<br>
Problem with this is: Arguable, this is already the case today, so it<br>
sucks as a goal since it allows us to do or change nothing, it's not<br>
measurable, and I haven't figured it out how to make it measurable.<br>
It's simply too vague.<br>
<br>
Alright, so I sat down and tried to make it more concrete, by adding<br>
lots of bullet points and thoughts, but I don't think it's much better.<br>
I'll post them here:<br>
<br>
KDE software protects and enables users privacy by:<br>
<br>
- During normal usage it doesn't leak information to other users or<br>
online services when this is not expected to happen<br>
- Examples: Typing into KRunner or using the desktop search will<br>
not produce artifacts online, but downloading new wallpapers from<br>
the Store may lead to the user leaving traces, this is expectable<br>
and reasonable<br>
- KDE Tools provide sound and state-of-the-art methods for using<br>
private communication, such as encrypted communication with other<br>
services. Examples:<br>
- Communication and data exchange with online services uses SSL<br>
encryption (or similar)<br>
- KMail offers well-integrated GPG encryption and makes it easy and<br>
straight-forward to use encryption to talk to mail servers, it<br>
works well with a number of privacy-respecting email service<br>
providers<br>
- KDE software covers most use-cases to allow the user to privately<br>
communicate and store his per personal information on services that<br>
are known to protect the user's privacy<br>
- top notch support for self-hosted email, file storage, cloud<br>
storage, collaborative editing, file sharing<br>
<br>
Measuring (this is *really* lacking):<br>
- what the press writes about us<br>
- what our users think (online fora, polls, e.g.)<br>
- own website promotes privacy (is this central to our communication?)<br>
<br>
Tools (can be made more concrete once the above points are fleshed out):<br>
- strategy promotes privacy down into details, see the above<br>
- collaboration with EFF, other organisations (Whonix, Tor, ...?)<br>
<br>
<br>
So, I could use some help with this, in the form of how this can be<br>
structured, in what form it will be useful, more ambitious, and very<br>
importantly measurable: I want us to be able to sit down in two years<br>
and check: Are we on track? Do we need to change our approach? Do we<br>
need to work harder? And of course: Did we achieve our goal?<br>
<br>
Your thoughts and input?<br>
<font color="#888888">--<br>
sebas<br>
<br>
<a href="http://vizZzion.org" rel="noreferrer" \
target="_blank">http://vizZzion.org</a> ⦿ <a href="http://www.kde.org" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.kde.org</a><br> \
</font></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic