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List: kde-community
Subject: Re: radical proposal: move IRC to Rocket.Chat
From: Thomas Pfeiffer <thomas.pfeiffer () kde ! org>
Date: 2017-08-09 18:17:18
Message-ID: FFFFE96E-268F-4046-A2A3-D4EA15181281 () kde ! org
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> On 09 Aug 2017, at 19:57, Albert Astals Cid <aacid@kde.org> wrote:
> >
> > The bigger issue seen in what Jonathan pasted isn't that IRC clients show
> > when people join or leave a group. The issue is that it shows when people
> > close their IRC client. And the problem is not that it shows them, but that
> > this is _relevant_ because it means they can't follow the conversation
> > anymore.
>
> This is a feature and not a bug.
>
> Instant messanging is for instant communication, if i'm not there i don't care
> what happened, important things should be sent by email or other actually
> archiveable format.
>
> You can't expect me to read a 200 messages backlog in 20 channels just in case
> something important was said while i was away.
>
> Also one of the reasons of why i hate to use Telegram for anything that
> "actually matters" is this "always on" feature.
>
> Telegram messages end up in my phone, and show a notification, so i have to
> read it because my mind wants my task bar without notifications, but once read
> the "you have to read this" is gone, so if it's something important i need to
> do later i will forget and won't get done.
>
> And to top that off there's no way to "log off from channels" like on IRC
> (where i am on some channels during work day and some others on non work day),
> so it creates the false impression that i'm "always avaiable" when i'm not and
> that together with the "no way to mark messages as unread if they are
> important" makes it really bad for serious use.
>
Slack has mitigated that problem by allowing you to set - per Team, so your work and \
your spare time projects would live in different teams - times when you are \
considered available and get notifications, and times when you're considered away and \
you don't get notifications. And people who ping you while you're away get the \
information that you're away, plus the option to have you notified anyway in case \
something really really catastrophic happened.
We could make such a capability a requirement if enough of us think it's crucial.
[Attachment #3 (unknown)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html \
charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; \
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote \
type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 09 Aug 2017, at 19:57, Albert Astals Cid <<a \
href="mailto:aacid@kde.org" class="">aacid@kde.org</a>> wrote:</div><div \
class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; \
font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: \
normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; \
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: \
0px;" class=""><br class="">The bigger issue seen in what Jonathan pasted isn't that \
IRC clients show<br class="">when people join or leave a group. The issue is that it \
shows when people<br class="">close their IRC client. And the problem is not that it \
shows them, but that<br class="">this is _relevant_ because it means they can't \
follow the conversation<br class="">anymore.<br class=""></blockquote><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">This is a feature and not a bug.</span><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">Instant messanging is for instant \
communication, if i'm not there i don't care<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">what happened, important things should be sent by email or other \
actually<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">archiveable format.</span><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">You can't expect me to read a 200 messages \
backlog in 20 channels just in case<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">something important was said while i was away.<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">Also one of the reasons of why i hate to use Telegram for anything that<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">"actually matters" is this "always on" feature.</span><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">Telegram messages end up in my phone, and show \
a notification, so i have to<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">read it because my mind wants my task bar without notifications, but once \
read<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: \
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; \
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; \
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">the "you have to read this" is gone, so if it's \
something important i need to<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">do \
later i will forget and won't get done.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">And to top that off there's no way to "log off from channels" like on \
IRC<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: \
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; \
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; \
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; \
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span \
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: \
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; \
widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; \
display: inline !important;" class="">(where i am on some channels during work day \
and some others on non work day), </span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">so \
it creates the false impression that i'm "always avaiable" when i'm not and<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
class="">that together with the "no way to mark messages as unread if they are<span \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; \
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; \
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" \
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