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List:       kde-commits
Subject:    Re: kdebase/kicker/core
From:       "Aaron J. Seigo" <aseigo () olympusproject ! org>
Date:       2004-02-10 5:30:31
Message-ID: 200402092230.31707.aseigo () olympusproject ! org
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On February 09, 2004 09:20, George Staikos wrote:
>   I hate it.  In fact, I am rather confident that khelpcenter is used more
> often than kmail.  After 10 years of working for the ISP industry, I have
> seen the trend that a very large percentage of users use webmail, not local
> email clients.  However, I often get requests from people for more help in
> KDE, which means that people are definitely using the help.  In fact in my
> Paris trip, this was a very common request.

khelpcenter provides that for people? and they don't find it from application 
help menus? they instead open the default help application from kicker and go 
perusing through it, esp in its current state?

yes, people need help using their computer. the question is the worth of 
having khelpcenter on the kicker bar. it's a fundamentally different 
question.

>    Furthermore, I don't see how two icons gains any significant screen
> space.

it isn't primarily about gaining more screen space, though that's a nice side 
effect. it's about:

 o less buttons and gew-gads (by default) lowers the learning curve and makes 
it easier to readily identify parts of the panel.

 o for the tweakers, it gives more space for people to add what they want

there is, obviously a "too simple" and a "too busy" to this spectrum. we've 
thoroughly explored "too busy" in the past, now to avoid "too simple" while 
correcting that. 

btw, i'm collecting data on Konqueror toolbar usage in web browser mode from 
Real Life Users. it's enlightening, though not completely surprising. similar 
data for kicker button would also be useful. that would really be defining 
and maybe even help keep the simplifiers from bashing heads with the 
intertials. ;-)

>    Furthermore, I would like to know how a user who is new to KDE will find
> the help, to teach him how to use KDE, when he now has to know how to use
> KDE in order to find the help.  Contrary to popular belief, the "K" menu is
> not so obvious.

i'm in the middle of a large amount of work on kicker. one of the changes is a 
passive popup that occurs next to the first instatiated K menu button upon 
login explaining what it is and what it does. the popup is hideable; sort of 
like Kandalf's Tips, only more obvious, closer to the context and less 
intrusive (it doesn't steal focus and automatically hides away even if you 
don't do anything)

no matter what we do to kicker, this is an important addition as long as we 
stick to the K Menu concept, IMHO

>    Furthermore, I think that a using a *unix* desktop (KDE) without using
> konsole right now is still pretty much a dream. 

i have users that do it every day all day for as long as they've used KDE. the 
question is whether this will become more the norm or less the norm; whether 
those who need access to a terminal can find it when they need it or not.

> I don't see help as debatable, it has to to back. 

and yet we debate? ;-)

>    One of the great strengths of KDE is its configurability.  By hiding
> KControl, you are hiding that great strength from the user.  It makes the
> first impression much less impressive IMHO.

people like kde because the kcontrol icon is on the panel? we know different 
users, obviously. ;-)

- -- 
Aaron J. Seigo
GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43

seems to me that
if i could find the right music
i'd never have to sleep again
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