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List: kde-buildsystem
Subject: Re: Request to bump Qt version requirements to 4.6.3 for KDE SC 4.5
From: Loïc_Corbasson <loic.corbasson () gmail ! com>
Date: 2010-07-08 18:29:39
Message-ID: AANLkTil3twbBGCJHd3X6DUqCc1mAXNUxP3d13TgeTD-e () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hi,
2010/7/8 Maciej Mrozowski <reavertm@gmail.com>
> On Thursday 08 of July 2010 19:28:01 Thiago Macieira wrote:
> > On Thursday 8. July 2010 18.42.36 Maciej Mrozowski wrote:
> > > The question is: who cares whether Qt minor releases are
> interchangeable
> > > or not so that we can just specify minimal required dependencies to
> > > ensure only that stuff compiles?
> > >
> > > "the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt " - i=
s
> > > this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that code
> > > compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's
> fundamental
> > > question.
> >
> > The build-time requirement doesn't influence the run-time requirement o=
f
> > Qt. You can compile against 4.6.3 and then run against 4.6.0.
> >
> > So requiring 4.6.3 to compile will NOT get your bug solved.
>
> I disagree but let me explain.
>
> Someone fetches KDE tarballs. Tries to build them - then encounters build
> error stating that Qt dependencies are not met. Person in question upgrad=
es
> Qt, then builds KDE and problem has been solved by avoiding it.
>
> If person in question is distro packager, he does the same, but he also
> ensures that runtime dependencies of packages he's preparing are matching
> build time dependencies.
>
> Distro packager should know that he should upgrade to the latest version =
of
Qt 4.6 to get the latest fixes...
> If said person purposely hacks buildsystem to allow older Qt version - he
> should be ready to grab the pieces. The only case when bug is not "solved=
".
>
> > You need to convince your distro to upgrade. And all KDE has to do is t=
o
> > say that distros should upgrade.
> >
> > And that should go without saying that distros should always upgrade. A=
nd
> > they do.
> >
> > So what are you complaining about?
> >
> > Bug reported -> ceck
> > Bug fixed -> check
> > Distros upgrading -> check
>
> Right. But those users who will go through this exact same procedure over
> and
> over AGAIN. Because:
> - they weren't told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard (why would they? th=
ey
> just grab packages and build from source against whatever Qt version they
> happen to have)
>
I feel that these are quite specific users you're talking about. People not
upgrading Qt and building their software themselves. I suppose that if they
are in that specific combination they somehow know what they're doing -- no=
?
> or
> - packager who prepared packages for them was not told Qt-4.6.2 is broken
> in
> this regard.
>
... because it's a Qt bug and the Qt packager should upgrade its package as
he is following the changelogs of the software he packages -- no?
> So the only reliable way for them to find out is to personally experience
> bug,
> fill it (or seach bugzilla first), then be told to go away and complain
> elsewhere (usually distro).
> And all of this could have been avoided if dependencies were raised in
> first
> place.
>
> And some people don't care about bugs for system tray notifications,
because they don't use them. Each new 4.6 version of Qt will fix bugs,
should we make it mandatory to upgrade for anyone wanting to use KDE? I
don't feel so. People who want fixed bugs upgrade. Others probably don't
care, whatever the reason behind this might be (maybe just because they
don't want to recompile everything just for something they're not using?).
Compile-time is for compilation-related checks.
> (and some people say it's distros that work like "it compiles -> release"=
)
>
> Now, it's been enough noise already so most distro packagers are probably
> aware that current Qt dependencies for 4.5 are not what's supposed to be
> used
> actually, but there will always be people building from source manually.
>
> And they probably (should) know what they're doing.
> cheers
>
> --
> Maciej Mrozowski
> Gentoo KDE release coordinator
>
>
> Lo=C3=AFc Corbasson
[loic.corbasson@gmail.com]
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote">Hi,</div><div \
class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">2010/7/8 Maciej Mrozowski \
<span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:reavertm@gmail.com">reavertm@gmail.com</a>></span></div> <div \
class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im">On Thursday 08 of \
July 2010 19:28:01 Thiago Macieira wrote:<br> > On Thursday 8. July 2010 18.42.36 \
Maciej Mrozowski wrote:<br> > > The question is: who cares whether Qt minor \
releases are interchangeable<br> > > or not so that we can just specify \
minimal required dependencies to<br> > > ensure only that stuff compiles?<br>
> ><br>
> > "the build-time dependency should only be a minor release of Qt " \
- is<br> > > this policy written anywhere? Why is it more important that \
code<br> > > compiles than providing better user experience? I think it's \
fundamental<br> > > question.<br>
><br>
> The build-time requirement doesn't influence the run-time requirement of<br>
> Qt. You can compile against 4.6.3 and then run against 4.6.0.<br>
><br>
> So requiring 4.6.3 to compile will NOT get your bug solved.<br>
<br>
</div>I disagree but let me explain.<br>
<br>
Someone fetches KDE tarballs. Tries to build them - then encounters build<br>
error stating that Qt dependencies are not met. Person in question upgrades<br>
Qt, then builds KDE and problem has been solved by avoiding it.<br>
<br>
If person in question is distro packager, he does the same, but he also<br>
ensures that runtime dependencies of packages he's preparing are matching<br>
build time dependencies.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>Distro packager should know that he should upgrade to the \
latest version of Qt 4.6 to get the latest fixes...</div><div> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex;">
If said person purposely hacks buildsystem to allow older Qt version - he<br>
should be ready to grab the pieces. The only case when bug is not \
"solved".<br> <div class="im"><br>
> You need to convince your distro to upgrade. And all KDE has to do is to<br>
> say that distros should upgrade.<br>
><br>
> And that should go without saying that distros should always upgrade. And<br>
> they do.<br>
><br>
> So what are you complaining about?<br>
><br>
> Bug reported -> ceck<br>
> Bug fixed -> check<br>
> Distros upgrading -> check<br>
<br>
</div>Right. But those users who will go through this exact same procedure over \
and<br> over AGAIN. Because:<br>
- they weren't told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in this regard (why would they? they<br>
just grab packages and build from source against whatever Qt version they<br>
happen to have)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I feel that these are quite \
specific users you're talking about. People not upgrading Qt and building their \
software themselves. I suppose that if they are in that specific combination they \
somehow know what they're doing -- no?</div> <div> </div><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex;"> or<br>
- packager who prepared packages for them was not told Qt-4.6.2 is broken in<br>
this regard.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>... because it's a Qt bug and \
the Qt packager should upgrade its package as he is following the changelogs of the \
software he packages -- no?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
So the only reliable way for them to find out is to personally experience bug,<br>
fill it (or seach bugzilla first), then be told to go away and complain<br>
elsewhere (usually distro).<br>
And all of this could have been avoided if dependencies were raised in first<br>
place.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>And some people don't care about bugs for system tray \
notifications, because they don't use them. Each new 4.6 version of Qt will fix \
bugs, should we make it mandatory to upgrade for anyone wanting to use KDE? I \
don't feel so. People who want fixed bugs upgrade. Others probably don't \
care, whatever the reason behind this might be (maybe just because they don't \
want to recompile everything just for something they're not using?). Compile-time \
is for compilation-related checks.</div> <div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" \
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> (and some \
people say it's distros that work like "it compiles -> release")<br> \
<br> Now, it's been enough noise already so most distro packagers are \
probably<br> aware that current Qt dependencies for 4.5 are not what's supposed \
to be used<br> actually, but there will always be people building from source \
manually.<br> <br></blockquote><div>And they probably (should) know what they're \
doing.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> cheers<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Maciej Mrozowski<br>
Gentoo KDE release coordinator<br>
</font><br><br></blockquote><div>Loïc Corbasson</div><div>[<a \
href="mailto:loic.corbasson@gmail.com">loic.corbasson@gmail.com</a>] </div></div> \
</div>
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