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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    Bug#10102: To SuSE: Thank you for your KDE 2.0 work; To KDE team: bug 10102 still  needs work
From:       paul.c.leopardi () ac ! com
Date:       2000-10-28 3:00:49
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Hi,
To the SuSE KDE packager and all at SuSE who worked on KDE 2.0.:

I just wanted to say thanks for all the work you have done on KDE 2.0. I'm
sure that packaging it and publicising it was just the final touches, but
this makes a big difference to current and prospective SuSE users.

The SuSE KDE 2.0 download information at
http://www.suse.com/us/support/download/kde2/index.html
and the instructions given in the FAQ at
http://www.suse.com/us/support/download/kde2/faq.html are exactly the type
of documentation I was asking for in my previous messages to you and in my
KDE bug report 10102 at http://bugs.kde.org//db/10/10102.html

I have not yet followed the download instructions because I have had
trouble moving files between my work PC (fast Internet connection) and my
home PC (slow dialup) and because I have pressing University assignments
which take priority. Once I have check out the SuSE instructions I will
take a look at my own detailed instructions and either amend them or forget
them altogether and just go with what SuSE says.

The link on your home page to the press release at
http://www.suse.com/us/suse/news/PressReleases/kde2.html is a very good
idea. It helps people find the instructions more easily. I think having a
CD and book available is also good work.

I must say that you seem to be way ahead of the other distributions and
even http://www.kde.org in all of this:

Red Hat
Red Hat's home page says nothing about KDE and they do not have a KDE 2.0
press release, news item or up-to-date FAQ.
Red Hat users are having problems installing and using KDE 2.0. See, for
example,  http://dot.kde.org/972331966/972558013/#972559812

Caldera
The home page does not have a press release. The preview version at
http://www.calderasystems.com/preview/ mentions KDE 2.0
The updates pages do not mention KDE 2.0 and the links to
http://www.kde.org from the rest of the site are old.

Debian
The home page does not mention KDE 2.0 at all, although the unstable branch
includes it and gives its dependencies:
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/x11/task-kde.html , thanks to Ivan E.
Moore II , and the mailing lists mention deb packages, eg.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-user-0010/msg01775.html

Linux-Mandrake
Linux-Mandrake is the same as Red Hat, no press release, no proper download
instructions, but at least there is the Earthweb article by Christopher
Molnar at http://www.earthweb.com/dlink.resource-jhtml.72.950.
|repository||softwaredev|content|article|2000|10|18|SDMolnarKDE01|SDMolnarKDE01~xml.41.jhtml?cda=true


The README for Mandrake at
ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/2.0/distribution/rpm/Mandrake is very
skimpy indeed. It doesn't say where to find these other packages and it
doesn't give any post-installation instructions.

There seems to be a major difference between the SuSE and Mandrake RPMs.
SuSE will install kde2 into /opt/kde2 and leave kde in /opt/kde. The README
for Mandrake says it will replace kde1. In other words, once your install
on Mandrake has completed successfully, you will have a different KDE 2.0
from SuSE, because you will no longer have the old KDE.  The README does
not explain how much of the old KDE will be removed. Will it remove the old
QT libraries? If so, how do old KDE programs such as kssh and kwintv run?
Not stated in the README, and so far no FAQ. Maybe Mandrakesoft will fix
this with the release of 7.2.
At http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php3?sid=20001019091828 people are
asking Mandrake to follow SuSE in using the default KDE file tree
heirarchy, putting KDE into /opt/kde rather than the Red Hat tree based on
/usr. There are differing opinions.

KDE
Install Binaries:  http://www.kde.org/install-binaries.html
Christopher Molnar wrote this page. I asked him to take it down or update
it. There is now a disclaimer on this page, but it needs careful revision,
including a link to the correct SuSE pages.

Newbies and other people who don't know KDE well will see the instructions
but ignore the date (5 September) and therefore think that these
instructions are valid for the recent KDE 2.0 release.

The "Finding and Downloading Binaries" section is wrong. The "Installing
Binaries" section is incomplete. It does not refer to the README files for
the different distributions and it does not say how to start KDE 2.0. It
does not say what to do to kdm to allow logins using kde2.

KDE1 and KDE2:  http://www.kde.org/kde1-and-kde2.html
I think this page is not right for KDE 2.0, especially if KDE 2.0 is
installed from the SuSE RPMs. I did not need to do all this and am running
both KDE and KDE2 RC2.

KDE FAQ: http://www.kde.org/documentation/faq/kdefaq.html
The KDE FAQ is not yet up to date with respect to KDE 2.0. The "KDE 2.0
installation instructions" section does not refer to /opt/kde2 as the
directory where some distrbutions which use RPMs will install KDE 2.0.

From what I have seen of the Mandrake and SuSE documentation, Mandrake RPMs
install into /usr, overwriting some but maybe not all old KDE apps, and
SuSE installs into /opt/kde2, leaving KDE 2.0 alone. The FAQ should make
this distinction and should say something about how to run older KDE apps
such as kssh and kwintv.

KDE 2.0 Info Page: http://www.kde.org/info/2.0.html
This is a good start to answering my bug report 10102. Thanks to  for
putting this together! It contains many of the common problems I have seen
on the lists.

I would add that during the beta process there have been a few sources of
confusion:
1. People inconsistently compile and download binaries, eg. compiling their
own QT but using an RPM for KDE.
2. People don't read the READMEs and don't download all of the necessary
RPMs, eg. the SuSE lib RPMs needed by QT and KDE.
3. People don't understand that there have been two different approaches
taken to packaging: SuSE which installs KDE 2.0 in separate packages to KDE
1.1.2 and in different directories; and Mandrake which overwrites KDE.
Consequently, people on mailing lists give each other incorrect advice, and
people unnecessarily de-install software, move directories, create links
and so forth. The instructions at http://www.kde.org/kde1-and-kde2.html are
an example of this.

When the KDE 2.0 Info Page addresses these sources of confusion, and when
the KDE FAQ, "KDE1 and KDE2" and "Install Binaries" are updated or taken
down, KDE can finally close bug 10102.

Thanks again and best regards

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