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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    [Bug 280858] Konqueror crashes
From:       Gérard Talbot <browserbugs () gtalbot ! org>
Date:       2011-08-29 4:10:40
Message-ID: E1QxtBI-0004YG-JV () bugs ! kde ! org
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https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=280858





--- Comment #10 from Gérard Talbot <browserbugs gtalbot org>  2011-08-29 04:10:40 \
--- (In reply to comment #8)
> it's not only www.zeit.de or www.tagesspiegel.de, it's also,
> but not so often, www.focus.de, www.morgenpost.de, www.spiegel.de and many
> other Websites. 
> 
> And a comment to khtml: Try, to open www.nytimes.com. 


You make the same error that many people do: they mention a lot of sites but at
bugs.kde.org we can not work that way. Every single website has its own HTML
code, it own CSS code, own flash-related code, javascript code, ajax code,
etc.. We can not, just like that, deal with a bug report that lists many
websites. Basically, we want to deal with one single, defined, accurately
targeted known issue per bug report. Only one. And a reduced testcase is the
most preferred way to deal with bug report.

Many of those sites have bad code, bloated code, external service content added
dynamically. We need clear testcases, clean testcases, reduced testcases.
Listing websites is not like listing code. And listing code is not like
creating a reduced testcase.

"
due to the large number of bug reports received, and the large amount of time
that it takes developers to identify issues, reports which do not include a
testcase or are not described in reproduceable steps will get a low priority of
fixing.
(...)
follow these steps to build a test case:

Save the relevant page or frame on your disk.
Load the page from your disk and see if the problem is still there.
Only if it's necessary to reproduce the bug: save framesets, images etc.
Throw out anything that has nothing to do with the bug, i.e. delete some stuff,
reload to check if the problem is still there, delete more stuff. Do this until
you found the exact cause of the problem. The HTML file should not have more
than 20 lines at the end.
The important part is: the page should be as short as possible to be able to
still reproduce the bug. The shorter it is, the sooner it will get fixed!
"
Investigating Konqueror Bugs (I already mentioned that page)
http://www.konqueror.org/investigatebug/



Many other browser manufacturers also ask people to submit bug reports where a
reduced testcase can be done out of these.

Mozilla:
How to Really, Really Help Developers on Bugs -- Minimal Testcases
https://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaQualityAssurance:Triage#How_to_Really.2C_Really_Help_Developers_on_Bugs_--_Minimal_Testcases




Webkit: 
"
If you have created a test case reduction for the bug, please add it to the bug
report as an attachment rather than putting it on a web server and listing its
URL here. Doing so makes it easier to work on the bug, and can be a first step
towards checking in the test case along with the bug fix.
"
Bug Reporting Guidelines
http://www.webkit.org/quality/bugwriting.html


Test Case Reduction (webkit)
A general guide to test case reduction
http://www.webkit.org/quality/reduction.html


> If you scroll down the
> website, you see a link to videos. Under khtml you see only the MainVideo. The
> four windows under the MainVideo with alternate videos you don't see!?! 

Then that would require another bug report. With 1 (not more than 1) defined
webpage, you can file 1 bug report. No more than 1 defined webpage per bug
report. Websites do not have, do not share the same markup, CSS, javascript,
ajax, etc. code and they very often have well-formedness, validation,
compliance errors.

The www.zeit.de and www.tagesspiegel.de have thousands of lines of code! We
want to deal with minimal testcases which have no more than 50 lines of code.
The shorter, the better.


> I prefer konqueror as Browser, because it is the Browser from KDE. But, sorry,
> I don't understand, why it is impossible, that this Browser give me the same
> function without any Problems as other Browser like firefox, Opera, google
> chrome and others. What the hell is the matter? 

Be careful here! I used Konqueror 4.7.0 to view zeit.de and had no problems
none whatsoever to view videos. And I listed all of my configuration. You use a
**beta** flash plugin whereas I do not.


> The same libflash.so, which
> crashes konqueror, doesn't crashes Firefox, Opera, Google-Chrome and so on!
> Since more than ten years the konqueror is a big problem. It is the reason,
> that the great Distributions doesn't use the konqueror! Why, damned, the
> Konqueror-Team can't do the same like the teams from Firefox, Opera, Chrome and
> so on? And is KHTML like a religion for the Develop-Team? When KHTML doesn't
> bring me the function for a good functionable Browser, put it into the trash
> and forget it!

All of the above has nothing to do with a serious bug report. 

Flash plugin used to crash a lot in IE8 and Safari and Chrome. Microsoft, Apple
and Google complained publicly about Adobe's flash plugin: this can be
verified, confirmed by searching the web.

Nevertheless, again, I am telling you that 
- you are using a beta flash plugin created, maintained by Adobe, not KDE
people; flash is not web standard but a proprietary plugin. Adobe may be
ignoring any/all browsers which are not IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari and Opera.
Who knows?
- you are using webkit rendering engine created, maintained by webkit, not KDE
people

I know that Konqueror using the KHTML rendering engine is not bad but it is not
flawless, not perfect.

Gérard

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