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List:       kde-bugs-dist
Subject:    [Bug 143482] automake, autoconf, libtools, gcc,
From:       Andreas Pakulat <apaku () gmx ! de>
Date:       2007-03-29 10:49:26
Message-ID: 20070329104926.23854.qmail () ktown ! kde ! org
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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143482         




------- Additional Comments From apaku gmx de  2007-03-29 12:49 -------
For some reason responding to the BR mails doesn't work, so I post my answers again \
via the web interface:

On 26.03.07 12:53:26, Matthew Brand wrote:
> The thing is, when you install kdevelop, it does come with those
> examples (like "simple Hello World").

Those are not "examples", they are project templates which happen to be
buildable out-of-the-box.

> I reckon that the first thing most new users will do is try to compile
> and run the "simple hello world" program, I did.

Sure.

> Surely kdevelop ought to be able to build and run it's own shipped
> examples "out of the box" with as little pain as possible,

There's only little pain involved if you take the kdevelop, we provide.
But you didn't for obvious reasons.

> especially when they are tagged with the word "simple". I
> just think it would be helpful to add some kind of warning (inside
> kdevelop) that tells new users that they cannot expect that to happen
> without installing those other bits of software.

Well, yeah the templates mostly lack some good information, but
unfortunately there's no way but providing this in the comments. You are
welcome to go through the examples find out the requirements and change
their descriptions. Then send the patch to the -devel list.

> In my opinion, it is a bug that you can't run the examples "out of the
> box" and that no warning or information is given to point you in the
> right direction.

At least for the simple hello world program, as well as the kde and qt
examples: You can run them "out of the box", that is you took the
kdevelop we provide.

That said: I don't want the new-project-wizard taking 5 minutes to start
because he tries to check wether all the deps for a given app-template
exist. Not to mention that there's no way to define the requirements for
a given project and there's no proper unified way to check for them.

> I think that a lot of people will have simply given up and tried
> something else the moment that the program failed to compile it's own
> "simple hello world" program.

Sure, if they found something that works better than KDevelop for them
thats fine with me.  I personally don't care too much about those
people, I care about those that don't find a better replacement and want
to use KDevelop.

> I'm not going to "reopen Bug". In the end it is your program so it is
> up to you. I am just providing polite feedback as requested. I am
> happy that I have got my copy working now, but thought these changes
> might help other new users to get started in compiling their c++ code
> using kdevelop.

Well, you're missing 1 thing here: You didn't take the kdevelop we (the
kdevelop developers) provide, you took the package your distribution
provides. That are two totally different things. I don't think we plan
to add a package-management-thing to our application templates, they
should be easily creatable.

BTW: I don't know of _any_ ide out there that tells you which package to
install if you try to use something in an application. For example
Eclipse will only show you compiler errors if you use a class for which
there's no .jar installed (i.e. tomcat stuff, or jdom or ...). This is
something that package management tools should handle, thats why they
exist in the first place.

So to summarize: As I said before you're barking up the wrong tree here,
you need to talk to the support of your distribution to make sure they
provide the proper package dependecies. If I that was only a typo in the
bugreport you're obviously using Kubuntu which is a debian-based distro
and thus uses the .deb packaging format. This format allows to specify
recommended and suggested packages and know what: gcc+autotools are
suggested by the KDevelop package. So its really: RTFM, you have to make
yourself familiar with the environment you're using, in this case
Kubuntu and the adept package manager.

Andreas

PS: In case I sound harsh here or there: No offense meant, just trying
to be clear.


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