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List: kde-bindings
Subject: Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG
From: Alex Mizuki <alex.mizuki () gmail ! com>
Date: 2013-07-24 21:34:19
Message-ID: CADBDqw=FV5jOU9MJM=vve9bxkqP8XE6HDbN1uy2q3GLGGLp1Yg () mail ! gmail ! com
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Looks like Xamarin has just publicly released the work they have been doing
for the past 6 months surrounding C++ interop to replace Cxxi. It was just
announced at MonkeySpace conference. Based on github commits, it looks
like it has been very actively developed by someone dedicated full-time to
this effort.
Miguel's MonkeySpace presentation describing CppSharp:
http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeicaza/monkey-space-2013
github repo:
https://github.com/tritao/CppSharp
On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Dimitar Dobrev <dpldobrev@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. However, Qt-Jambi (http://qt-jambi.org/)
> looks abandoned. There already was an attempt to use it through IKVM here -
> http://code.google.com/p/qt4dotnet/ - also abandoned. Even if one were to
> revive it, its dependency on the seemingly dead Qt-Jambi kills any future
> it might have. Besides, I believe performance would be worse than with a
> SWIG-based solution.
>
> Regards,
> Dimitar
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* james <james@mansionfamily.plus.com>
> *To:* Dimitar Dobrev <dpldobrev@yahoo.com>; KDE bindings for other
> programming languages <kde-bindings@kde.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2013 9:32 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG
>
> What is Qt-Jambi doing, or are they in difficulty too?
>
> Qt seems to shed bindings like they are going out of fashion.
>
> I can imagine that's no problem for Phil with PySide, bit perhaps a little
> less NIH elsewhere would work.
>
> I mean - maybe the Qt-Jambi system could be extended? Even if it means
> going through IKVM?
>
> Or maybe the PySide stuff could be reused - even if the glue is IronPython?
>
> James
>
>
> On 12/07/2013 13:41, Dimitar Dobrev wrote:
>
>
> Hello, Ruth,
>
> Glad to hear from you again. I am sorry Qyoto didn't work out for
> you but I do agree SWIG would be a better solution, with better
> performance indeed. I'll try to find free time to work on it as soon as
> possible. However, I cannot make any promise yet.
>
> Best regards,
> Dimitar
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Ruth Ivimey-Cook <ruth@ivimey.org> <ruth@ivimey.org>
> *To:* kde-bindings@kde.org
> *Sent:* Friday, July 12, 2013 2:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG
>
> Dimitar and others,
>
> I evaluated using Qyoto for a project I'm working on and - with regret for
> all the hard work Dimitar had obviously put in - decided against it, both
> because it was buggy and because it was very slow. When I investigated the
> speed issue SMOKE relies on textual matching of function signatures to call
> functions. Admittedly the hashes, once matched, are hashed and cached, but
> still... It also involved at least 2 transitions from managed to
> unmanaged code, which IIRC are expensive in themselves.
>
> People I know have used SWIG to good effect but I have no personal
> experience.
>
> A statically linked shim file (not a DLL, if possible) - i.e. a set of
> functions coded in managed code that each make an unmanaged call to the
> "real" function would be the way I would expect. Coding this by hand would
> be painful, so a program to generate them is the obvious response. I
> believe this is the SWIG way.
>
> If it were possible I would look into using something like an XML file
> containing the interface definition, maybe itself initially generated from
> the .h files, and which can then be adapted and enhanced to improve it. If
> the Qt and/or SWIG community were receptive this might become something
> people would support generally - e.g. including PyQt et al. - which would
> benefit everyone.
>
> HTH
> Ruth
>
>
> Dimitar Dobrev wrote:
>
>
> Dylan,
>
> Thank you for your suggestion. I know about CXXI but it wouldn't be
> my choice for the following reasons:
> 1. It is both incomplete and abandoned;
> 2. It relies on Reflection.Emit which is not supported on iOS; Qt will
> soon officially run on iOS and it'd be nice if the bindings worked on
> that platform too.
>
> Regards,
> Dimitar
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "Moonfire, D." <d.moonfire@mfgames.com> <d.moonfire@mfgames.com>
> *To:* KDE bindings for other programming languages <kde-bindings@kde.org><kde-bindings@kde.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:06 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Gour <gour@atmarama.net> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 06:31:43 -0700 (PDT)
> Dimitar Dobrev <dpldobrev@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > 3. I don't want to have anything to do with SMOKE any more so if you'd
> > like to take this path, you'd be on your own.
>
> Isn't it pity that there is no more interest in having Qt bindings for
> the .NET/Mono? :-(
>
>
> There was an announcement some years back on one of the Mono blogs about
> an interop layer for C++ (https://github.com/mono/cxxi). It was never
> mentioned again and I think a grue ate it, but it looked like a really nice
> set of libraries if someone maintained it beyond the initial proof of
> concept. I also don't know how tightly it is tied to Mono itself and if a
> cross-platform version could be done with it.
>
> Looking at the code, they were also using Qt as the example in their POC.
>
> - Dylan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kde-bindings mailing list
> Kde-bindings@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kde-bindings mailing listKde-bindings@kde.orghttps://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings
>
>
>
> --
> Software Manager & Engineer
> Tel: 01223 414180
> Blog: http://www.ivimey.org/blog
> LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kde-bindings mailing list
> Kde-bindings@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kde-bindings mailing listKde-bindings@kde.orghttps://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Kde-bindings mailing list
> Kde-bindings@kde.org
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings
>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div>Looks like Xamarin has just publicly released the work they have \
been doing for the past 6 months surrounding C++ interop to replace Cxxi. It was \
just announced at MonkeySpace conference. Based on github commits, it looks like it \
has been very actively developed by someone dedicated full-time to this effort.</div> \
<div><br></div><div>Miguel's MonkeySpace presentation describing \
CppSharp:</div><br><div><a \
href="http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeicaza/monkey-space-2013">http://www.slideshare.net/migueldeicaza/monkey-space-2013</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>github repo:</div><div><br></div><div><a \
href="https://github.com/tritao/CppSharp">https://github.com/tritao/CppSharp</a><br></div><div \
class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"> On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 2:55 \
PM, Dimitar Dobrev <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dpldobrev@yahoo.com" \
target="_blank">dpldobrev@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new \
roman,new york,times,serif"><br><div><span> Thank you for your suggestion. \
However, Qt-Jambi</span> (<a href="http://qt-jambi.org/" \
target="_blank">http://qt-jambi.org/</a>) looks abandoned. There already was an \
attempt to use it through IKVM here - <a href="http://code.google.com/p/qt4dotnet/" \
target="_blank">http://code.google.com/p/qt4dotnet/</a> - also abandoned. Even if one \
were to revive it, its dependency on the seemingly dead Qt-Jambi kills any future it \
might have. Besides, I believe performance would be worse than with a SWIG-based \
solution.</div> <div><br></div><div \
style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><span> Regards,</span></div><div \
style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"> <span> Dimitar</span><span><br></span></div><div \
class="hm HOEnZb"><div><br></div> </div><div style="font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div class="hm HOEnZb"> </div><div \
style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div \
class="hm HOEnZb"> </div><div dir="ltr"><div class="hm HOEnZb"> <hr size="1"> \
</div><font face="Arial"><div class="hm HOEnZb"> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> james <<a \
href="mailto:james@mansionfamily.plus.com" \
target="_blank">james@mansionfamily.plus.com</a>><br> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Dimitar Dobrev <<a \
href="mailto:dpldobrev@yahoo.com" target="_blank">dpldobrev@yahoo.com</a>>; KDE \
bindings for other programming languages <<a href="mailto:kde-bindings@kde.org" \
target="_blank">kde-bindings@kde.org</a>> <br> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 12, 2013 9:32 \
PM</div><div><div class="h5"><br> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG<br> \
</div></div></font> </div> <div><div class="h5"> <div><br><div>
<div>
<div>What is Qt-Jambi doing, or are they in
difficulty too?<br>
<br>
Qt seems to shed bindings like they are going out of fashion.<br>
<br>
I can imagine that's no problem for Phil with PySide, bit perhaps
a little less NIH elsewhere would work.<br>
<br>
I mean - maybe the Qt-Jambi system could be extended? Even if it
means going through IKVM?<br>
<br>
Or maybe the PySide stuff could be reused - even if the glue is
IronPython?<br>
<br>
James<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/07/2013 13:41, Dimitar Dobrev wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div lang="x-western">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<div><br>
<span></span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><span> Hello, Ruth,</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><br> <span></span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><span> Glad to hear from you again. I am sorry \
Qyoto didn't work out
for you but I do agree SWIG would be a better </span><span>solution, \
with better performance indeed. I'll try to find free time to work on it as soon \
as possible. However, I cannot make any promise yet.</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><br> <span></span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><span> Best regards,</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times \
new roman,new york,times,serif"><span> Dimitar</span><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial"> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Ruth
Ivimey-Cook <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ruth@ivimey.org" \
target="_blank"><ruth@ivimey.org></a><br> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kde-bindings@kde.org" \
target="_blank">kde-bindings@kde.org</a> <br> <b><span \
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 12, 2013 2:41 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>Dimitar
and others,<br>
<br>
I evaluated using Qyoto for a project I'm working
on and - with regret for all the hard work Dimitar
had obviously put in - decided against it, both
because it was buggy and because it was very slow.
When I investigated the speed issue SMOKE relies
on textual matching of function signatures to call
functions. Admittedly the hashes, once matched,
are hashed and cached, but still... It also
involved at least 2 transitions from managed to
unmanaged code, which IIRC are expensive in
themselves. <br>
<br>
People I know have used SWIG to good effect but I
have no personal experience.<br>
<br>
A statically linked shim file (not a DLL, if
possible) - i.e. a set of functions coded in
managed code that each make an unmanaged call to
the "real" function would be the way I would
expect. Coding this by hand would be painful, so a
program to generate them is the obvious response.
I believe this is the SWIG way.<br>
<br>
If it were possible I would look into using
something like an XML file containing the
interface definition, maybe itself initially
generated from the .h files, and which can then be
adapted and enhanced to improve it. If the Qt
and/or SWIG community were receptive this might
become something people would support generally -
e.g. including PyQt et al. - which would benefit
everyone.<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
Ruth<br>
<br>
<br>
Dimitar Dobrev wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif"><span> <br> </span><span> Dylan,<br>
<br>
</span><span> </span><span>Thank you for your
suggestion. </span>I know about CXXI but it
wouldn't be my choice for the following reasons:<br>
<span> 1. It is both
incomplete and abandoned;</span><span><br>
</span><span> 2. It
relies on Reflection.Emit which is not
supported on iOS; Qt will soon officially run
on iOS and it'd be nice if the bindings</span><span> \
worked on that platform too.<br>
<br>
</span><span>
Regards,<br>
</span><span>
Dimitar</span><span>
</span>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new \
york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1"> <font face="Arial">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
"Moonfire, D." <a rel="nofollow" \
href="mailto:d.moonfire@mfgames.com" \
target="_blank"><d.moonfire@mfgames.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
KDE bindings for other programming
languages <a rel="nofollow" \
href="mailto:kde-bindings@kde.org" target="_blank"><kde-bindings@kde.org></a> \
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:06 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [Kde-bindings] Qt & SWIG<br>
</font> </div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On
Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Gour <span \
dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:gour@atmarama.net" \
target="_blank">gour@atmarama.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 06:31:43 \
-0700 (PDT)<br>
Dimitar Dobrev <<a rel="nofollow" \
href="mailto:dpldobrev@yahoo.com" target="_blank">dpldobrev@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> 3. I don't want to have
anything to do with SMOKE any more
so if you'd<br>
> like to take this path, you'd
be on your own.<br>
<br>
Isn't it pity that there is no more
interest in having Qt bindings for<br>
the .NET/Mono? :-(<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
There was an announcement some years
back on one of the Mono blogs about an
interop layer for C++ (<a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://github.com/mono/cxxi" \
target="_blank">https://github.com/mono/cxxi</a>).
It was never mentioned again and I think
a grue ate it, but it looked like a
really nice set of libraries if someone
maintained it beyond the initial proof
of concept. I also don't know how
tightly it is tied to Mono itself and if
a cross-platform version could be done
with it.<br>
<br>
Looking at the code, they were also
using Qt as the example in their POC.<br>
<br>
- Dylan<br>
</div>
<br>
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target="_blank">Kde-bindings@kde.org</a><br> <a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings</a><br> <br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
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target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings</a> </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre>--
Software Manager & Engineer
Tel: 01223 414180
Blog: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ivimey.org/blog" \
target="_blank">http://www.ivimey.org/blog</a>
LinkedIn: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/" \
target="_blank">http://uk.linkedin.com/in/ruthivimeycook/</a> </pre> </div>
</div>
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</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<div style="font-family:-moz-fixed;font-size:14px" lang="x-western">
<pre>_______________________________________________
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target="_blank">Kde-bindings@kde.org</a> <a rel="nofollow" \
href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings" \
target="_blank">https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-bindings</a> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div><br><br></div> </div></div></div> </div> \
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br> Kde-bindings \
mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:Kde-bindings@kde.org">Kde-bindings@kde.org</a><br>
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