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List:       kde-artists
Subject:    Re: [kde-artists] OpenDocument MIME icons
From:       pinheiro <nuno () oxygen-icons ! org>
Date:       2007-05-15 15:33:05
Message-ID: 200705151633.05160.nuno () oxygen-icons ! org
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A Tuesday 15 May 2007 16:25:04, James Richard Tyrer escreveu:
> David Vignoni wrote:
> > Il giorno 15/mag/07, alle ore 10:35, James Richard Tyrer ha scritto:
> >> Robert Knight wrote:
> >>>> I was going to work on this but now I have been insulted by an
> >>>> Oxygen developer.  He called my HiColor icons prehistoric. Actually,
> >>>> that isn't an insult since they are not supposed to be artsy, they
> >>>> are generic.
> >>>
> >>> Are we talking about a mailing list or an IRC conversation?  Just to
> >>> make sure that there are not two separate discussions going on in
> >>> different mailing lists about this topic.
> >
> > this was not an insult, did I insulted you any way? Don't think I have
> > used a bad language against you?
> > Your icon was really old style and not compatible with the oxygen icon
> > theme, I wanted to emphasize that.
> >
> >> This is a migrating discussion.  It started on KDEArtist and moved over
> >> here.
> >>
> >>> Plus, it isn't clear from your email whether this is the view of just
> >>>  one particular contributor to Oxygen ( who you haven't named ) or a
> >>>  consensus.
> >>
> >> Don't know.  The remark is on the other list.  IIUC, it was from a major
> >> contributor.
> >
> > yes, it was me, the art director of the project for the icon part. Is
> > this important regarding what are the issues here?
> >
> >>> Does this person agree that there is a problem with the current icons?
> >>
> >> No, he thinks that there is nothing wrong with the highly detailed
> >> icons.
> >
> > In fact I think that the icon at >32x32 size *must* be detailed icons. I
> > also said that the small icons will have special versions which are not
> > done right now.
> > For this reason you should talk about that issue only when you see the
> > small icons when they will be availble. Current 16x16, 22x22 and 32x32
> > most are placeholders.
> >
> >>> I agree on the basic point about the current mimetype icons for ODF
> >>> not working well at small sizes.  My main concern is that the colours
> >>>  used are pale and cannot be used to tell them apart.
> >>
> >> The colors become pale as they are mixed with the background color.
> >>
> >>> Here is a very common use case:  I have 20 or so documents of varying
> >>>  types in a folder, I am interested in the spreadsheets in
> >>> particular, and want to open one to make changes.
> >>> http://www.robertknight.me.uk/files/kde/oxygen-odf-mimetype-problem.png
> >>
> >> So, as a better illustration, I made a Oxygen style icon [attached]
> >> which is rendered in 64x64.  Compare this with the 6x64 Oxygen from
> >> SVN.  Note that even in 64x64 that this is blurred.  The text in the
> >> actual Oxygen icon is black (000000) with 80% opacity which is
> >> actually darker than the lines representing text in my icon (9B9B9B).
> >> However, this 80% black is mixed with the background color and results
> >> in a lighter shade in the rasterized image.  The smaller the size, the
> >> lighter it gets.  I note that with the similar HiColor icons that I
> >> needed to make hand optimized PNGs for 48x48 and smaller to maintain
> >> the contrast.
> >
> > James, reading the concerns Robert is explaining above, in which way do
> > you think that icon you attached fix the pale colours he is talking
> > about. Comparing your icon to the rest of the mimetypes, where everything
> > has a more realistic look and feel, I may think this is a sheet with some
> > lines drawed on it, because it doesn't look like real text. The "lines"
> > as "text"  approach is for small icons, like 16x16.
> >
> > I know I already told you many times there will be versions for the
> > small sizes, but since you still reference the current placeholder
> > icons, here you can see a new version of the text mimetype as  complete
> > set, inlcuding optimized 16x16 and 32x32 version:
>
> I think that you don't exactly understand my point.  My point is about
> contrast.
I must say that i dont get your point most of the times also!

Nuno Pinheiro
-- 

core oxygen icon designer
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