* Frans Englich <frans.englich@telia.com> [Jan 22. 2004 20:30]:
> On Tuesday 20 January 2004 22:37, Kenneth Wimer wrote:
> > * Wade Olson <wadejolson@yahoo.com> [Jan 20. 2004 18:04]:
> > > The variables in the equation of svg quality we're discussing seem to be:
> > > - A standard file format that itself needs to mature
> > > - Software implementations (SodiPodi, Karbon, AI, etc) of varying degrees
> > > of maturity - Rendering that is still maturing
> > > - No standardized style guide
> > >
> > > So...why the problems? :)
> > >
> > > Thus, without seeing the results of this script, I like the direction of
> > > this solution.
> >
> > Me too...to be honest, I have not had enough time to look at this
> > either. I think that this is probably the best answer that I have heard
> > yet.
> >
> > > Obviously, the solution of multiple svg files based on resolution is not
> > > optimal, due to one of svg's selling points is the singular image file
> > > without regard to size.  Because going that route would cause time and
> > > work that would later be lost if any of the variables above changed and
> > > resulted in acceptable quality, other options should be exahuasted first.
> >
> > Yes. I agree, but with some icons this will be a problem. Because of the
> > numberr of different icons it is almost impossible to make "simple"
> > graphics for all of them...think of text editors - how many "simple"
> > text editor icons are possible? In the end, I agree that you are right,
> > but I think that we will encounter many problems.
> 
> This is one of the lovely usability problems caused by KDE including tons of 
> apps, ranging from tea cookers to multiple text editors.  The real solution 
> does not only come from the artists but must be addressed globally. If the 
> artists ensure the app icons in kdebase and the major apps from kdegraphics, 
> kdemultimedia, kdepim and kdenetwork(core kde) is easily distinguishable it 
> will one day be fine(and that is the day KDE does not include everything but 
> the kitchen zink - because that's what causes this problem). I don't think 
> it's simply possible to make 400 icons unique and distinguisable, but it 
> doesn't matter because the problem is elsewhere - no one should be exposed to 
> so much.

Sure, but just check the artwork bug list. Does KATE have it own icon?
There are programs in KDE that use the same code and do the same thing.

In order to fix these problems we would have to make a list of the "important"
or "good" apps that we all think should receive attention first. I am
not sure if that is a good idea.

> >
> > > Can we test some of the problematic files with this new script to see if
> > > any settings enhance the visibility at 16X16 (I don't have the means at
> > > work myself)?  Can the person who reported the 16X16 issues (James Tyrer
> > > I believe, but not sure) let us know if the new files appear more
> > > suitable in their opinion?
> >
> > In 3-4 weeks a "Werkstudent" (a university student who is doing a
> > praticum at SuSE) will be working for me. We will be testing and
> > implementing a system at suse to use only svg graphics (using the
> > scripts in kde, naturally :) I have thought about having the
> > "Werkstudent" take this time to work on the SVG style guide, as well as
> > testing and improving scripts, testing programs, etc.
> 
> As I see it, KDE's arwork problem has been caused by it being so informal, no 
> community, no clear policies, no docs (roughly) etc. From time to time, 
> artists from different companies have remotely worked on KDE.
> In order to make the artwork situation "distributed" and failsafe, we need 
> docs, community and a "system" which works without hired people. In other 
> words, the best thing, for KDE as well as from a economic viewpoint from 
> SuSE, it is best if your apprentice works /with/ and together with the 
> community so the "base" is built at KDE. Not just /in/ the cubicle at SuSE, 
> so to say ;-) But this is of course, my usual rambling.
> In either case, considering the last weeks movements on this list, it looks 
> very promising.


I agree 100% Without a real community of people working together and
communicating their ideas there is no way in hell that SuSE or any other
company can pay someone to "take care of everything". Without help from
everyone else it will be impossible. A project like KDE needs lots of
people working on it, not two or three. I think that everyone will agree
on that.


bye,
ken

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