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List:       kde-artists
Subject:    Re: K-ARTIST: I don't like this SVG idea...
From:       James Richard Tyrer <tyrerj () acm ! org>
Date:       2004-01-22 20:25:50
Message-ID: 401031CE.2010201 () acm ! org
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Casey Allen Shobe wrote:
> There's been some discussion on SVG recently, and what I've seen are lower-quality
> icons entering some applications as a result of generating PNGs from SVG, so I thought
> I'd offer my opinion.
> 
> Vector graphics are *not* suitable for such a diverse size range (16x16 to 128x128,
> IMHO; because too fine of detail will result in a horrible 16x16 image, with too high
> of contrast

Actually, the smaller icons lack contrast.  Under sampling reduces contrast -- they become
fuzzy colored blobs at small resolution.

I have also found another issue which is that pixmap rendering of SVG files results in
unintended transparency.  I don't know if the fault is the rendering software or that the
SVG files are not designed correctly.  Specifically when I render the Kexi icon:

	koffice/kexi/pics/kexi_yellow.svg

in The GIMP 2.0Pre?, parts of the gear are transparent and the rendered image doesn't look
correct unless I put a White layer behind it.

> and no solid borders and everthing blurring together; and too little detail will result
> in an ugly undetailed 128x128 icon.
> 
You are correct that scaled SVG icons are not as good for sizes 48x48 and smaller, and you
need to have a very high resolution monitor to use larger than 48x48 for everything.  It
is theoretically possible to have some rendering system that would take care of the
problem with outlines if they were pure black -- like with the PNG Crystal icons I made
for Krita [attached].  I only tweaked the black, the rest was just scaled.

> The most I would ever like to see is some SVG theme that is *NOT* the default in KDE,
> because frankly, crystalSVG is ugly and inadequate for small icons, and I don't want to
> have to have big icons to have a usable desktop.
> 
It isn't useful to base this on a personal opinion (and mine is negative also).  The
problem with (some or many) Crystal icons is that according to classical information
theory they do not contain as much information as KDEClassic icons.  So, it shouldn't be
surprising that they are not as easy to recognize in smaller sizes.

> However, judging by the fact that all I see in kcontrol --> Appearance --> Icons is the
> Crystal SVG beta1 theme, it's apparently forced as the default and I don't even have
> any option to change it without going and hunting down whatever packages might have the
> usable icons in them.
> 
> I think this is a bad decision :-\.
> 
Yes, you shouldn't have to install KDEArtWork to get the KDEClassic icons.

> Furthermore I don't see why KDE should have native SVG support at all. Rendering would
> be very slow,

I presume that this will be cached which should solve that issue unless the SVG files are
too complex -- needlessly complex.

--
JRT


["cr48-app-krita.png" (image/png)]
["cr32-app-krita.png" (image/png)]
["cr22-app-krita.png" (image/png)]
["cr16-app-krita.png" (image/png)]

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