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List: kde-accessibility
Subject: Re: Problems with KDE Plasma terminal emulator "Konsole"
From: Chrys <chrys () linux-a11y ! org>
Date: 2019-05-06 8:39:29
Message-ID: 47051C11-3370-426B-BEA9-20710EEFE58E () linux-a11y ! org
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Howdy,
> Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by
> itself helps.
Ok, lets try it out. We will see what happens
> Am 06.05.2019 um 10:35 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn <gladhorn@kde.org>:
>
>> On fredag 3. mai 2019 16:21:49 CEST Chrys wrote:
>> Howdy Frederik,
>>
>> Awsome! So after update to QT 5.12.4 i should be able to give konsole a shot
>> again? Are your patches in Konsole master?
>
> No, I haven't managed to finish them, I need to put them up for review.
>
> Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by
> itself helps.
>
> Cheers,
> Frederik
>
>
>>
>> Cheers chrys
>>
>>> Am 30.04.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn
> <Frederik.Gladhorn@qt.io>:
>>>> On mandag 8. april 2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>>> Hey again.
>>>>
>>>> We were getting focus and caret-moved events for something with role
>>>> accelerator-label. That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out in
>>>> Orca master.
>>>>
>>>> Having solved that problem, I went looking for the accessible object
>>>> with role terminal in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in the
>>>> accessibility tree. Weird. I also couldn't find the accelerator-label
>>>> object in Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object with
>>>> role accelerator label happens to have the same text as what I see
>>>> displayed in the terminal. So here are my guesses:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Somehow the terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs to
>>>>
>>>> be fixed. Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal widget,
>>>> Orca uses the terminal role to identify when the terminal script
>>>> should be used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be an
>>>> easy fix.
>>>
>>> The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on Linux, this should be working
>>> with Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to Konsole for some other unlabeled
>>> buttons and such.
>>>
>>>> 2. Assuming you, too, don't see the terminal widget in the accessibility
>>>>
>>>> tree, it would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. Whether
>>>> or not doing so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca is
>>>> hard to say. But Orca does make some decisions about what to present,
>>>> and also obtains the stuff to present, by looking in the
>>>> accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the wrong
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> The terminal widget is presented as editable text, is that the best
>>> approach? And it has children (some menu and other stuff iirc).
>>>
>>> Does that make sense?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Frederik
>>>
>>>> Lastly, I found an ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just trust
>>>> that if we get a state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's a
>>>> valid focus claim. This was (and perhaps still is?) needed because
>>>> either the focused state and/or the focusable state were missing from
>>>> the state set. I haven't removed that hack, but I have now added some
>>>> extra debugging. We don't want missing states, because there can be
>>>> other places Orca uses those states to decide what to present. Now
>>>> something you could do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some QT
>>>> apps, then look in the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". If
>>>> you find it, please figure out why the state is missing and fix it. :)
>>>>
>>>> Please let me know if you have any questions. And thanks for all your
>>>> work in this area!
>>>>
>>>> --joanie
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>>>> Hey Chrys.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> --joanie
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys wrote:
>>>>>> Howdy Joanie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i currently do some new testing session for KDE Plasma.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all, Thanks for the KWin script. i just test it,, the window
>>>>>> switcher now works now very awsome with orca master :). Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just play around with "Konsole" its the KDE Plasma Terminal emulator.
>>>>>> and i figured, it has an A11y implementation! But it seems some kind of
>>>>>> broken as orca doesn't announce incoming text or word echo like it does
>>>>>> in gnome-terminal. But i also figured that the text is available in
>>>>>> review. Maybe could you take a look what broken that i can see what i
>>>>>> can do to fix it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cheers chrys
>
>
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; \
charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div \
dir="ltr">Howdy,</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><blockquote \
type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000"><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, \
0); background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Qt 5.12.4 only makes the terminal role \
work, I'm not sure how much that by <br>itself \
helps.</span></font></div></blockquote>Ok, lets try it out. We will see what \
happens</div><div dir="ltr"><br>Am 06.05.2019 um 10:35 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn \
<<a href="mailto:gladhorn@kde.org">gladhorn@kde.org</a>>:<br><br></div><blockquote \
type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><span>On fredag 3. mai 2019 16:21:49 CEST Chrys \
wrote:</span><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>Howdy \
Frederik,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Awsome! So \
after update to QT 5.12.4 i should be able to give konsole a \
shot</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>again? Are your patches in \
Konsole master?</span><br></blockquote><span></span><br><span>No, I haven't managed \
to finish them, I need to put them up for review.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Qt \
5.12.4 only makes the terminal role work, I'm not sure how much that by \
</span><br><span>itself \
helps.</span><br><span></span><br><span>Cheers,</span><br><span>Frederik</span><br><span></span><br><span></span><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Cheers \
chrys</span><br></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Am 30.04.2019 um 14:58 schrieb Frederik Gladhorn \
</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><span><<a \
href="mailto:Frederik.Gladhorn@qt.io">Frederik.Gladhorn@qt.io</a>>:</span><br><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On mandag 8. april \
2019 16:56:14 CEST Joanmarie Diggs \
wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Hey \
again.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>We were getting \
focus and caret-moved events for something with \
role</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>accelerator-label. \
That seemed bogus, so I'm now filtering those out \
in</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Orca \
master.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Having solved that \
problem, I went looking for the accessible \
object</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>with role terminal \
in Accerciser, but couldn't find it in \
the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>accessibility tree. \
Weird. I also couldn't find the \
accelerator-label</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>object in \
Accerciser. Then I did some local debugging. The object \
with</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>role accelerator \
label happens to have the same text as what I \
see</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>displayed in the \
terminal. So here are my \
guesses:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>1. Somehow the \
terminal is getting role accelerator label. That needs \
to</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> be fixed. \
Aside from it being a bogus role for a terminal \
widget,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> Orca uses \
the terminal role to identify when the terminal \
script</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> should be \
used. I might be wrong, but I think this should be \
an</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> easy \
fix.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The terminal role was badly mapped in Qt on \
Linux, this should be working</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>with Qt 5.12.4, I have a few patches to \
Konsole for some other unlabeled</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>buttons and \
such.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>2. Assuming you, \
too, don't see the terminal widget in the \
accessibility</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> tree, it \
would be good to figure out why that is and fix it. \
Whether</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> or not doing \
so will have a screamingly-obvious impact on Orca \
is</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> hard to say. \
But Orca does make some decisions about what to \
present,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> and also \
obtains the stuff to present, by looking in \
the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> \
accessibility tree. If that tree is broken, Orca might do the \
wrong</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> \
thing.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>The terminal widget is presented as \
editable text, is that the best</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>approach? And it has children (some menu \
and other stuff iirc).</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Does that make \
sense?</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Cheers,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Frederik</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Lastly, I found an \
ancient hack in Orca for Qt in which we just \
trust</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that if we get a \
state-changed:focused event with detail1=1, it's \
a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>valid focus claim. \
This was (and perhaps still is?) needed \
because</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>either the focused \
state and/or the focusable state were missing \
from</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the state set. I \
haven't removed that hack, but I have now added \
some</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>extra debugging. We \
don't want missing states, because there can \
be</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>other places Orca \
uses those states to decide what to present. \
Now</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>something you could \
do is enable full debugging in Orca, use some \
QT</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>apps, then look in \
the resulting debug.out. Search for "QT: WARNING". \
If</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>you find it, please \
figure out why the state is missing and fix it. \
:)</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Please let me know \
if you have any questions. And thanks for all \
your</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>work in this \
area!</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>--joanie</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>On 4/8/19 9:12 AM, Joanmarie Diggs \
wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Hey \
Chrys.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>Sure thing. I'm using KDE now myself. \
:)</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span>--joanie</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 4/7/19 6:03 PM, chrys \
wrote:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Howdy \
Joanie,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>i currently do some new testing session for \
KDE Plasma.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><blockquote \
type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote \
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