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List: kde-accessibility
Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] Use of gconf key
From: "Ashu Sharma" <ashutoshsharma () gmail ! com>
Date: 2006-06-26 15:55:00
Message-ID: 79693c1a0606260843s8c12ba3v75e72b38a712f3c1 () mail ! gmail ! com
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On 6/26/06, Bill Haneman <Bill.Haneman@sun.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Ashu:
>
> Currently the state of KDE accessibility is somewhat limited. Other
> than some important theming and keyboard-navigation support, which does
> not require a complex interface such as AT-SPI, there are only a few
> useful utilities like KMag, KMouth, and KMousetool. While these are
> nice utilities, they aren't enough to allow users who cannot use a
> keyboard at all, or who are blind or have very limited vision, to use
> KDE.
>
> We have three working screen readers (for blind users) for the free
> desktop now; gnopernicus, orca, and LSR. For users who cannot use a
> keyboard, we have GOK and Dasher. All of these technologies require the
> full power of the AT-SPI interfaces, and thus require the ORBit2 CORBA
> stack in order to work. The gconf key you mention is for determining
> whether support for such full-features assistive technologies should be
> enabled or not.
>
> When KDE/Qt applications provide full-featured accessibility services,
> as is planned for Qt4, then those services can be bridged to AT-SPI,
> making those applications available to screen readers and other sorts of
> "user interface adapting" assistive technologies.
>
> While it would be possible to write a "KDE" screen reader or KDE
> onscreen keyboard for severely disable users (for instance users who
> cannot even 'point and click' reliably), I don't think it would be the
> best use of our resources. Technologies like Orca are intended to work
> with AT-SPI-enabled KDE apps just as they work with applications like
> OpenOffice, Java apps, Firefox, and other applications today, not just
> "gnome". By writing Orca scripts for popular KDE applications, the KDE
> desktop, and by fixing the inevitable bugs in KDE's keyboard navigation
> and accessibility support, a modest amount of development effort can go
> further to benefit disabled users.
>
> best regards
>
> Bill
>
> On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 13:30, Ashu Sharma wrote:
> > On 6/26/06, Bill Haneman <Bill.Haneman@sun.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2006-06-26 at 08:19, Ashu Sharma wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > There was discussion about making use of ATK on KDE, rather
> > than
> > > putting in another CORBA implementation to talk to AT-SPI
> > (to avoid
> > > dependency on GNOME-related libraries). I'm not quite clear
> > as to what
> > > was finally decided.
> >
> > If KDE writes to ATK, it makes the job easier in a number of
> > ways (at
> > the cost of introducing a glib dependency, but hiding other
> > gnome-ish
> > dependencies). However, the AT-SPI layer requires CORBA in
> > order to
> > function, so in order to actually expose useful information to
> > our
> > assistive technologies, an application must LD_PRELOAD the
> > "atk-bridge"
> > module which bridges from ATK to AT-SPI's CORBA IPC.
> >
> > I think this is the most effective thing to do for the time
> > being
> > (preload atk-bridge), since it doesn't introduce a CORBA
> > dependency on
> > the KDE apps (only a soft runtime dependency). The AT-SPI
> > assistive
> > technology clients cannot work without the AT-SPI/ORBit2/etc.
> > libraries
> > being present on the system anyhow, so from a practical
> > perspective this
> > is the minimum current dependency situation.
> >
> > There's another environment variable you can look for if you
> > don't want
> > to use gconf; GTK_MODULES. Of course that's still quite a
> > gnome/gtk+-ish variable and arguably not appropriate to KDE
> > anyhow, so
> > it might be cleaner just to spawn a gconf-client executable
> > and parse
> > the output, in order to detect whether assistive technology
> > support is
> > desired or not. Also, soon there will be a slightly different
> > mechanism
> > for detecting the presence of the AT-SPI registry - it will
> > place an IOR
> > as an Xatom on the root DISPLAY window. This means you can
> > find it
> > without using bonobo-activation.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > >
> > > On a related note, is the gconf
> > > key '/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility' used on KDE
> > too, to set
> > > or find if accessibility support is to be enabled on a
> > system? Or, is
> > > it used only on GNOME?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Ashutosh
> > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > kde-accessibility mailing list
> > > kde-accessibility@kde.org
> > > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> > Thanks for these details.
> > I am actually wondering about the current state of KDE accessibility -
> > whether AT clients under KDE currently depend on gnome/gconf libraries
> > (especially if they use the gconf key
> > '/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility' to enable AT support) .
> > Thanks,
> > Ashutosh
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > kde-accessibility mailing list
> > kde-accessibility@kde.org
> > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility
>
>
Hi Bill,
These details are really useful. Thanks!
I suppose things will get much better on KDE after Qt4 or with more
application specific Orca scripts.
Thanks,
Ashu
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 6/26/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Bill \
Haneman</b> <<a href="mailto:Bill.Haneman@sun.com">Bill.Haneman@sun.com</a>> \
wrote:</span> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px \
0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi Ashu:<br><br>Currently the state of \
KDE accessibility is somewhat limited. Other<br>than some important \
theming and keyboard-navigation support, which does <br>not require a complex \
interface such as AT-SPI, there are only a few<br>useful utilities like KMag, KMouth, \
and KMousetool. While these are<br>nice utilities, they aren't enough to \
allow users who cannot use a<br>keyboard at all, or who are blind or have very \
limited vision, to use <br>KDE.<br><br>We have three working screen readers (for \
blind users) for the free<br>desktop now; gnopernicus, orca, and LSR. For \
users who cannot use a<br>keyboard, we have GOK and Dasher. All of these \
technologies require the <br>full power of the AT-SPI interfaces, and thus require \
the ORBit2 CORBA<br>stack in order to work. The gconf key you mention is \
for determining<br>whether support for such full-features assistive technologies \
should be <br>enabled or not.<br><br>When KDE/Qt applications provide full-featured \
accessibility services,<br>as is planned for Qt4, then those services can be bridged \
to AT-SPI,<br>making those applications available to screen readers and other sorts \
of <br>"user interface adapting" assistive technologies.<br><br>While it \
would be possible to write a "KDE" screen reader or KDE<br>onscreen \
keyboard for severely disable users (for instance users who<br> cannot even 'point \
and click' reliably), I don't think it would be the<br>best use of our \
resources. Technologies like Orca are intended to work<br>with \
AT-SPI-enabled KDE apps just as they work with applications like<br> OpenOffice, Java \
apps, Firefox, and other applications today, not \
just<br>"gnome". By writing Orca scripts for popular KDE \
applications, the KDE<br>desktop, and by fixing the inevitable bugs in KDE's keyboard \
navigation <br>and accessibility support, a modest amount of development effort can \
go<br>further to benefit disabled users.<br><br>best regards<br><br>Bill<br><br>On \
Mon, 2006-06-26 at 13:30, Ashu Sharma wrote:<br>> On 6/26/06, Bill Haneman < <a \
href="mailto:Bill.Haneman@sun.com">Bill.Haneman@sun.com</a>> \
wrote:<br>> On Mon, 2006-06-26 at \
08:19, Ashu Sharma wrote:<br>> \
> Hi,<br>> \
><br>> > There was \
discussion about making use of ATK on KDE, rather \
<br>> \
than<br>> > putting in another \
CORBA implementation to talk to \
AT-SPI<br>> (to \
avoid<br>> > dependency on \
GNOME-related libraries). I'm not quite \
clear<br>> as to what \
<br>> > was finally \
decided.<br>><br>> If KDE \
writes to ATK, it makes the job easier in a number \
of<br>> ways \
(at<br>> the cost of introducing a \
glib dependency, but hiding other \
<br>> \
gnome-ish<br>> \
dependencies). However, the AT-SPI layer requires CORBA \
in<br>> order \
to<br>> function, so in order to \
actually expose useful information \
to<br>> our \
<br>> assistive technologies, an \
application must LD_PRELOAD \
the<br>> \
"atk-bridge"<br>> module \
which bridges from ATK to AT-SPI's CORBA \
IPC.<br>><br>> I think this is \
the most effective thing to do for the time \
<br>> \
being<br>> (preload atk-bridge), \
since it doesn't introduce a \
CORBA<br>> dependency \
on<br>> the KDE apps (only a soft \
runtime dependency). The \
AT-SPI<br>> assistive \
<br>> technology clients cannot \
work without the AT-SPI/ORBit2/etc.<br>> \
libraries<br>> being present on \
the system anyhow, so from a \
practical<br>> perspective \
this<br>> is the minimum current \
dependency situation. \
<br>><br>> There's another \
environment variable you can look for if \
you<br>> don't \
want<br>> to use gconf; \
GTK_MODULES. Of course that's still quite \
a<br>> gnome/gtk+-ish variable and \
arguably not appropriate to KDE \
<br>> anyhow, \
so<br>> it might be cleaner just \
to spawn a gconf-client \
executable<br>> and \
parse<br>> the output, in order to \
detect whether assistive \
technology<br>> support is \
<br>> desired or \
not. Also, soon there will be a slightly \
different<br>> \
mechanism<br>> for detecting the \
presence of the AT-SPI registry - it \
will<br>> place an \
IOR<br>> as an Xatom on the root \
DISPLAY window. This means you can \
<br>> find \
it<br>> without using \
bonobo-activation.<br>><br>> \
regards<br>><br>> \
Bill<br>><br>> \
><br>> > On a related note, \
is the gconf<br>> > key \
'/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility' used on KDE \
<br>> too, to \
set<br>> > or find if \
accessibility support is to be enabled on \
a<br>> system? Or, \
is<br>> > it used only on \
GNOME?<br>> \
><br>> > Thanks, \
<br>> > \
Ashutosh<br>> \
><br>> \
><br>> \
______________________________________________________________________<br>> \
> _______________________________________________ \
<br>> > kde-accessibility \
mailing list<br>> > <a \
href="mailto:kde-accessibility@kde.org">kde-accessibility@kde.org</a><br>> \
> <a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility"> \
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility</a><br>><br>><br>><br>> \
Bill,<br>> Thanks for these details.<br>> I am actually wondering about the \
current state of KDE accessibility -<br>> whether AT clients under KDE currently \
depend on gnome/gconf libraries <br>> (especially if they use the gconf \
key<br>> '/desktop/gnome/interface/accessibility' to enable AT support) .<br>> \
Thanks,<br>> Ashutosh<br>><br>><br>> \
______________________________________________________________________ <br>> \
_______________________________________________<br>> kde-accessibility mailing \
list<br>> <a href="mailto:kde-accessibility@kde.org">kde-accessibility@kde.org</a><br>> \
<a href="https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility"> \
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility</a><br><br></blockquote></div>
<div><br>Hi Bill,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>These details are really useful. Thanks!</div>
<div>I suppose things will get much better on KDE after Qt4 or with more application \
specific Orca scripts.</div> <div> </div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div>Ashu</div>
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
kde-accessibility@kde.org
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility
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