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List:       kde
Subject:    Re: KDE 1.1 incompatible with old KDE 1.0 apps!
From:       Avus <top249 () g26 ! ethz ! ch>
Date:       1999-01-14 16:42:27
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mosfet wrote:
> Sorry to tell you this, but you'll also prpbably have to upgrade your apps with
> 1.2 and most certainly with 2.0. It's the price you pay for KDE being so

Will there be a 1.2 version? Cool, I thought you'd be going for 2.0 (KDE
NG with CORBA/OpenParts etc) immediately.
But as 1.2 will most certainly use Qt 2.x, the cut will be even clearer
than that between 1.0 and 1.1, I guess.

> Comparing the KDE backwards binary compatibility to MS "forcing an update
> cycle" is not an accurate comparision and misleading. KDE is free, none of us
> get paid for upgrades either to the core system or anything else available
> off of the KDE CVS. The upgrade cycle is motivated solely on how quickly people
> integrate new features and bugfixes.

Agreed, but two problems remain:
1.) Installation has to be easy, upgrading (relatively) flawless.
Currently situation: There are ~10 rpm files to be downloaded and
installed, not including non-KDE specific ones that may have to be
upgraded in the process. Hardly easier than Windows.
Suggestion of an idiot-proof alternative: Make a simple GUI for
installation that runs everywhere -say a statically linked fltk one- and
allows to choose the packages with the mouse. The whole thing uses rpm
as a back end, checks if it's an update or a new installation and does
it's job (in case of missing rpms provide an URL, where to get them).
Then wrap *all* files in a shell script of ~20 MB (I've read somewhere
about a tool that does this, but don't recall the name), and you have
your home-grown Installshield. 

2.) The problem is not so much the upgrade than rather the support for
those who don't upgrade. KDE 1.0 was pretty much dead right after it's
release (from the developers' view). With 1.1, you should really try to
release at least one "maintainance version" 1.1.1. 
Reasons: It will be much more popular (with practically all major distro
including it), people will rely on it for professional work, and -most
importantly- the successor (1.2 or 2.0) will bring major changes (Qt
2.0, more CORBA), which also means major new bugs and a rough transition
period.

BTW, a good idea would be to contact the distributors for help with the
upgrade procedure. They should be particularly interested in an easy
upgrade. 

> >Besides, whatīs the use of an defined API if it is changed every few
> >weeks? KDE is still in the beginning of its development, so changes are
> >probably unavoidable. But sooner or later you HAVE to think about a way
> >to guarantee some kind of backward compatibility, if you want to bring
> >Unix to the desktop of the average user, who isnīt interested in update
> >orgies every couple of weeks just to get his favorite app running.
> >
The point is: Once there are *really* commercial, closed-source apps
based on the KDE libs, you definitely have to think of backwards
compatibility. If all the source is available, it's just a matter of
providing a smooth way of upgrading.
Currently the only important KDE aware app (not qt based) is StarOffice
5, and I don't think this will break (or will it?).
But when kfm changes to the XDnD protocol this may be an issue.

[...]
> >Probably Iīll make a fool of myself when I mention it ;-) , but I
> >remember the days with my Amiga, when you could, without any problems,
> >replace any library (etc.) with a newer version (simply by copying it
> >into the right drawer). And, despite some flaws, I wouldnīt call the
> >Amigaīs OS bloated, especially when I compare it with Windows!

BTW, MUI had/has really a great 'theming' concept, much more flexible
than Gtk's. Hopefully Qt 2.0 takes this as a model.
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