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List: kc-kde
Subject: [kc-kde] [SUM: #68] KMail toolbar cleanup [kmail]
From: "Peter Rockai (mornfall)" <mornfall () logisys ! dyndns ! org>
Date: 2003-11-11 10:31:25
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Hello!
I started writing summaries for #68. This is the first one, as it is the most
urgent. This crosses mailng-list boundaries and thus, we need to cooperate
and not to step on each other's toes. So this is my proposal:
I covered the kmail part of the thread and i would like Henrique to cover the
usability part (or if you don't want to do it, i will). My part is attached.
On other things:
1) we forgot about archive links, as someone on the dot pointed out. I am
including them this time (please, add them as well to your summaries).
2) Someone also pointed out, that it might be helpful to mention the mailing
list on which did the thread happen. Investigation of kt.dtd did not show any
standardized way to do this, thusly i propose to add the name of mailing list
in square parentheses at the end of section title.
--
Peter Rockai (mornfall), mornfall()logisys!dyndns!org, mornfall.homeip.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
He says gods like to see an atheist around. Gives them something to aim at.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)
["10-kmail-toolbars.xml" (text/xml)]
<section
title="KMail toolbar cleanup [kmail]"
subject="Re: Toolbars"
archive="http://lists.kde.org/?l=kmail&m=106841851202204&w=2"
author="Peter Rockai (mornfall)"
contact="mailto:mornfall@logisys.dyndns.org"
posts="10"
startdate="09 November 2003 23:52:56"
enddate="11 November 2003 02:30:00">
<topic>KMail</topic>
<topic>Usability</topic>
<mention>Henrique Pinto</mention>
<p>Aaron posted a lenghty proposal for KMail toolbar cleanup (as a
reaction to ours Henrique Pinto's post to kde-usability:</p>
<quote who="Aaron J. Seigo">
<p>On Sunday 09 November 2003 12:45, Henrique Pinto wrote:<br />
> I've just noticed that<br />
> <a
href="http://kde.ground.cz/tiki-index.php?page=Toolbar+Review">http://kde.ground.cz/tiki-index.php?page=Toolbar+Review</a></p>
<p>i agree with just about everything there, except the "Text Aside
Icons" bit... i'm very concerned that this would make KDE much
more cluttered looking and much harder to use on smaller
screens... this is also wasted space once the user learns the
basic icons (e.g. print) and most users won't know how to change
that default...</p>
<p>otherwise, re: the clipboard icons: yes.. they should be removed
from the ui_standards.rc file... there ought to be, IMHO, separate
ui_standards.rc files for different types of apps, actually... for
document centric editting apps, the clipboard icons should
probably be there...</p>
<p>the undo/redo icons should also be removed. the arrows are bit too
generic to be on a toolbar IMHO, and even less useful than the
clipboard actions.</p>
<p>i also support the concept of removing the Help, Configure and Quit
toolbar icons from wherever they appear...</p>
<p>i actually have an email sitting in my drafts folder for a post-3.2
mailing that covers many of these issues; i'd like to see us
reduce toolbar icons by 30% or more in KDE ++(3.2).</p>
<p>looking at kmail's composer window, for instance, removing Print
(how often does one print from the composer window?), undo/redo,
New Composer gives us 10 icons, down from 14. that's a 28.5%
improvement right there without even breaking a sweat =)</p>
<p>i'd probably argue for removing the Automatic Spellcheck button.
and the Sign button. those are probably items people either use
99% of the time, or don't use at all. that would bring the count
down to 8, and we're approaching 50%.</p>
<p>the address book icon could likely be removed as well since what
one most likely wants is to add addresses to an email... if they
wish to just consult the addressbook, they can open it up
separately. that would result in just 7 icons.</p>
<p>as a minor niggle, Attach should probably be next to the Queue
button since it's likely the next most often used icon.</p>
<p>kmail's main window is a lot more difficult, though the configure
icon should almost certainly be removed, ditto with the Delete
button ... the other 12 icons are defensible though. there should
be a separator between the Print and Check Mail buttons. and
Next/Prev msg should probably move to be between the mail check
buttons and the trash button.. why? because one checks mail, reads
through it, occasionally deleting or replying.</p>
<p>the resulting clean up and reduction is DRAMATIC. try it. patches
attached.</p>
<p>kmail devels: ok to commit?</p></quote>
<p>Soon afterwards, he posted screenshots of new <a
href="http://tiki.urbanlizard.com/kmail_toolbar.png">mainwindow</a>
and <a
href="http://tiki.urbanlizard.com/kmail_composer_toolbar.png">composer</a>
toolbars.</p>
<p>Ingo commented:</p>
<quote who="Ingo Klöcker">
<p>Apart from that you have green light for kmmainwin.rc although I
wonder why you didn't remove the address book icon from the main
window toolbar.</p>
<p>kmcomposer.rc: What I don't understand is why you want to remove
the sign icon but not the encrypt icon from the toolbar. I guess
because IYHO people normally don't disable signing once they've
enabled it. Still I think signing and encryption should both be
visible. After all the signing icon not only serves as action to
dis-/enable signing but also as indicator that signing is enabled.
Furthermore signing and encryption definitely complement one
another. It would IMHO be odd if one of the two actions was
missing. I'm okay with the other changes.</p></quote>
<p>Also, he was concerned about existing users: <quote who="Ingo
Klöcker">One thing I don't like about toolbar changes in general
is that the changes will always be forced on all users and not
only on new users (provided the version number of the rc file is
increased). Especially for users who don't know how to re-add
icons they've got used to this will be a PITA.</quote>. And while
this is very much true, neither i nor any of the contributors to this
thread knew of any simple and elegant way of preventing this (apart
from Aaron noting the toolbars should have been well-designed from the
start, which doesn't seem all that helpful in the light of current
situation).</p>
<p>On another sub-topic, few people (with Ingo in lead) requested sign
icon to be left where it was. Aaron counter-argumented <quote
who="Aaron J. Seigo">not only is signing something one usually
sets up once and leaves that way, but encrypting is different in
another way: signing relates to YOUR identiy while encrypting
relates to THEIR identity. so the choice to encrypt or not really
complements the action of sending an email TO someone, as who you
send it to usually dictates whether you encrypt it or not.</quote>
This might be true, but still (well i am biased as well) i somehow
agree with Ingo. While the thread perished unconclusively,
investigation on kde-cvs shows Ingo overruled them all, putting the
sign button back.</p>
</section>
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