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List:       jaxlug-list
Subject:    RE: [JaxLUG] OT: Job advice needed -- the market has destroyedethics
From:       "Moore, Chris" <christophor.moore () wamu ! net>
Date:       2004-02-26 14:30:09
Message-ID: CF0468F5D6A1644593663502F5CEA5D0938375 () exmsea006 ! us ! wamu ! net
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This is REALLY good advice. Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: jaxlug-list-admin@jaxlug.org [mailto:jaxlug-list-admin@jaxlug.org] On Behalf Of \
                jsklein@mindspring.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:51 PM
To: jaxlug-list@jaxlug.org
Subject: RE: [JaxLUG] OT: Job advice needed -- the market has destroyedethics ...


Ok, I have also been screwed by contract companies. Here is a list of things I do to \
protect myself.  

Pre-Opportunity:
----------------
1.	No matter what the recruiter says about their uniqueness, their
job is to match requests from their customers and résumé's from you.  In general they \
do very little to maintain a relationship with the customer. Many just surf the web, \
and call to inform you of the opportunity.  What this means to you is that the \
recruiter matching keywords from the clients request to your résumé. If your résumé \
does not have the keywords on it, then "you must not be qualified".   2.	Watch for \
recruiters who try to convince you to change your résumé to fit a job requirement. If \
you take the job and can't live up to the requirements, this looks bad on you and not \
the recruiter! Always remember the recruiter makes a commission on everyone they \
place and not on doing a good job of placing you! 3.	Never sign anything, or provide \
confidential information (i.e. social security number, credit card, etc) until after \
the first interview with the customer. In general they keep very shabby records and \
could lead to your identity being stolen! If you sign anything, they could block you \
from going with any other recruiting company. 4.	Always provide permission for your \
résumé to be submitted. Some companies, to make themselves look bigger, will submit \
your résumé to many companies you may not be aware of. This will block you out of \
other positions from that company in the future because it was that contract company \
that brought you to the end company!! (This is what the HR People say and believe) 5. \
                Recruiters will waste your time, if they can.  This will
include: 
	- Asking you to their office then not see you for an hour. 
	- Keep you on hold for a long period of time.
	- Having you interview for jobs you know you are not qualified for or is not a good \
fit. I.E. an AS/400 job when you are a network person!


After the Interview:
--------------------
0.	Never trust or believe the contract company, no matter what!!!
All expenses are their responsibility!!! Get everything is written and signed by an \
authorized board member of the contract company!!! Sign nothing until you are \
approved by the customer!!! Never pay the contract company for getting you the job!!! \
1.	Check out the contract company via BBB.  2.	Interview the contract company. Find \
someone who is currently working for the contract company for over a year. I usually \
bring them out for a beer and let them talk ;-) You can learn much from what they \
say! 3.	Have an attorney review any contract before you sign it. It may
cost up to $300, but it is worth it. (Expense this to the contract company as a cost \
of doing business)


Once approved by customer:
-------------------------
1.	Negotiate for your wage, paid days on vacation, training classes
& conferences, health care, 401K, signing bonus, wage renegotiate after 6 months, \
etc.  If you also have a chance. Consider negotiate 1099 or 401k, if the customer \
wants you!!!  2.	If they charge 1.5x your wage for overtime, then ensure you are
also getting paid for this overtime.

Note: After the contract company's customer has received approval for your \
employment, you are in the best position to negotiate, so do it!

If they tell you "Well this is the way it is" or "we are unwilling to negotiate", \
document it and walk out.  It's time to play "hard ball". Contact end customer again \
and describe the problem and that you want to work from them, but the contract \
company is unwilling to negotiate. This will pressure the contract company to \
negotiate or else they will look unresponsive. 


On the Job:
-----------
1.	Ensure you keep documentation of any and all infractions by your
contract company.
2.	Use registered mail/signed e-mail for all communications between
you and the company. (Expense this to the contract company as a cost of doing \
business) 3.	Ensure you send in hours and expenses weekly! Save and store
your copies, you will need this in the future.


On Exit/Quit:
------------
1.    Write resignation letter and send it to the contract company via
registered mail.  Give them two weeks.
2.    Expect full payment for payroll, vacation with in two weeks of
leaving the job.
3.    Migrate your 401k quickly out of the companies control


If anyone has something to add, please e-mail me. I will summarize and repost!

Joe Klein 

-----Original Message-----
From: jaxlug-list-admin@jaxlug.org [mailto:jaxlug-list-admin@jaxlug.org]
On Behalf Of Bryan J. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:10 PM
To: jaxlug-list@jaxlug.org
Subject: Re: [JaxLUG] OT: Job advice needed -- the market has destroyedethics ...


I have left the technology sector for at least 5 months because of my last two \
employers (I'm now a school teacher, at least until May).  Apparently, they believe \
they are above Florida law.

No matter how "smart" I am.  No matter how "well" I negotiate, the contracts I had \
with my last two employers were basically treated like they were worth nothing.  I \
mean, it's like they totally forgot the terms they agreed to!

This is the first time I'm publicly saying this, and I probably shouldn't, but my \
                last employer "had the balls" to POST-DATE my contract
-- nearly a full month after I actually started.  Why?  Because they wanted to negate \
the signed FAX I had that stated I did not have a Non-Compete.  In a nutshell, after \
getting to State Farm, and State Farm moved me into a new, higher position, my \
contracting firm realized they had hit a gold mine with me.

After getting months of excuses, I realized I could not believe one thing out of my \
employer.  When I finally called them to "send out someone to discuss" (my employer \
was not local to me), their response was "no" and blunt.  Ultimately, it became clear \
their attitude was that since I relocated myself 1,100 miles to Bloomington, IL at my \
own expense (my contract was still with a Florida company though), I wouldn't leave, \
and I was under their thumb.

Well, I'm back in Florida, aren't I?  ;-ppp

[ I resigned the very next day ]

I realized, and even the client (State Farm) realized, that it cost my contracting \
company _far_more_ to lose me than it did me in moving up.  No matter how I explained \
that to them, they "didn't get it" until I resigned.  I will _never_ move myself \
1,100 miles again unless a company is "out some money" so they have a vested interest \
in keeping me -- apparently, the fact that their ineptidude cost them almost \
6-figures in hours that would not be billed if I left was not.

Then my contracting company even "had the balls" to call me _after_ I had moved back \
to Florida (not to mention already given countless overtime and other hours over 3 \
weeks to "finish off my high-profile work" -- _all_ acceptable to State Farm) that I \
"failed to show up for work" in January.  That _really_ pissed me off.  State Farm \
_knew_ I was gone after December 31st, I negotiated that _directly_, so there was no \
issue with the client at all.  But here was my contracting company, _still_ making up \
excuses -- after I _already_ started teaching at Orange County.

[ In a nutshell, my "contact" at my contracting company was a total lier, to the 10th \
power.  His signature was worth jack.  And once I resigned, I specifically told my \
contracting company they could _only_ correspond with me _if_ they were such an \
empowered officer under their articles of incorporation. ]

It's amazing how unethical (probably illegal) some companies are these days!  Even \
when you negotiate your terms, they still play games.

I've never experienced such ethics before, but I guess it is the market today.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith, E.I. -- Engineer, Technologist, School Teacher b.j.smith@ieee.org


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