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List:       jakarta-general
Subject:    Re: [PROPOSAL] The future of Jakarta
From:       "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver () apache ! org>
Date:       2007-06-03 17:49:04
Message-ID: 4662FF10.6040408 () apache ! org
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This is amazing.  I agree with Craig on something almost completely.

Craig McClanahan wrote:
> On 5/30/07, Henri Yandell <flamefew@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/30/07, Ted Husted <husted@apache.org> wrote:
>> > On 5/26/07, Henri Yandell <flamefew@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > Ack in terms of driving a community away because it is unable to meet
>> > > our arbitrary criteria.
>> >
>> > That sort of thinking just seems so Borg to me. It's another way of
>> > saying that a software product only has value if its hosted by the
>> > ASF.
>> >
>> > If a subproject, or even a project, is down to one or two committers,
>> > and those committers can't find a third, and don't want to apply to
>> > the Commons or declare the product dormant, then setting up shop on
>> > GoogleCode is an excellent alternative. I've done the same myself, and
>> > it's not the least bit painful. In many ways, it's joyful.
>>
>> Which Apache projects have you moved to GoogleCode and found it a
>> joyful experience? ie) I presume you mean starting a project there
>> rather than moving a community from the ASF.
>>
> 
> I suspect you are missing the point that *I* at least think Ted is
> making ... doing open source outside of Apache is fun, if you like
> doing open source.  Doing open source inside Apache is a pain ... even
> if you like doing open source, and even if you are an insider and know
> all the loopholes.
> 
>> My distaste for driving people to an open source repository is not
>> because of the repositories, but because our rules have driven them
>> out.
>>
>> > It might even be healthy if more ASF committers were involved with
>> > other hosts. The ASF may be a cult, but it should not also be a fetish
>> > :)
>>
>> Other communities, not 'host's. ie) You won't learn much from
>> code.google, java.net or sf.net other than whether you love or hate
>> the infrastructure. I bet a lot of us are involved with other
>> communities.
>>
> 
> You're right that it's more community oriented than host oriented
> (because it is about the process, not the technology).  You are wrong
> if you believe that "the Apache Way" (if there is such a singular
> thing, which I would dispute based on seven years of evidence to the
> contrary) makes things easier rather than harder.  Yes, there are some
> benefits of the "Apache" brand, but it is an open question whether
> they are worth the costs.
> 
> For myself, I have lots of ideas to do future open source projects,
> and (at the moment) zero plans to do them here at Apache.  The
> emotional and procedural and cultural costs are too high to compensate
> for the branding benefits.
> 
>> Hen
> 
> Craig
> 
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