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List: incubator-general
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
From: Antoine Toulme <antoine () toulme ! name>
Date: 2022-12-20 16:45:32
Message-ID: 749D1A5B-B0D8-4C3F-855B-6924D4A988FA () toulme ! name
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I've let the vote go on for a bit. I'd like to make sure we get a chance for final \
votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time.
Cheers,
Antoine
> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer <josh@joshfischer.io> wrote:
>
> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects
> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on
> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep
> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn.
>
> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge.
> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and
> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the
> most important part of building a self-sustaining community.
>
>
> I'll get off my soapbox now.
>
> - Josh
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry for asking,
> >
> > but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn't
> > understand what you wanted to say
> > (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn't understand
> > it).
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > From: Dave Fisher <wave4dave@comcast.net>
> > Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19
> > To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
> > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
> > Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow
> > explicitly part of the incubator's curriculum. That's a separate discussion.
> >
> > Best,
> > Dave
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang <willem.jiang@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release
> > checking.
> > > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still
> > > need to pay lots of attention to community building.
> > >
> > >
> > > Willem Jiang
> > >
> > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme <antoine@toulme.name>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello folks,
> > > >
> > > > Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its
> > incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the
> > domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has
> > managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off
> > all incubation checks.
> > > > Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and
> > later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have
> > onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions.
> > I expect this trend to continue and mature.
> > > >
> > > > The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is
> > the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and
> > slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move
> > away from the project.
> > > >
> > > > The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from
> > what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to
> > attract contributors on our own.
> > > >
> > > > The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have
> > been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their
> > precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the
> > incubator.
> > > >
> > > > With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience
> > building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's
> > time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the
> > project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator.
> > > >
> > > > I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Antoine
> > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay <lmccay@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with
> > considerable
> > > > > adoption falter.
> > > > > I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a
> > contributing
> > > > > factor here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and
> > encountering
> > > > > attrition is different from TLP
> > > > > with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project
> > while
> > > > > others can fall off in a healthy way.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases
> > > > > demonstrates contributors in the community
> > > > > even if they aren't all materially contributing code.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz <
> > christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in
> > which
> > > > > > even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity.
> > > > > > So, I would also consider this to be a blocker.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Community building isn't something that happens or comes for free.
> > > > > > It's actually hard work, but it needs to be done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just my opinion on this topic.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Willem Jiang <willem.jiang@gmail.com>
> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59
> > > > > > To: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
> > > > > > It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a
> > > > > > diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community
> > > > > > leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have
> > > > > > to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited
> > > > > > capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and
> > > > > > neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make
> > > > > > their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much
> > > > > > higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond
> > > > > > to feedback and questions for lack of time."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces
> >
> > > > > > [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Willem Jiang
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > > > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay <lmccay@apache.org> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation.
> > > > > > > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14
> > releases.
> > > > > > > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the
> > > > > > mentors
> > > > > > > and contributors on the private list.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these
> > libraries are
> > > > > > > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may
> > grow
> > > > > > > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases
> > > > > > > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors,
> > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > The long term success will require a larger active community but I
> > don't
> > > > > > > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have
> > been
> > > > > > met.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My 2 cents.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang <willem.jiang@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is
> > relatively
> > > > > > high.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Willem Jiang
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Twitter: willemjiang
> > > > > > > > Weibo: 姜宁willem
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang <lgcareer@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > mail list dev@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3].
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme
> > > > > > self,
> > > > > > > > > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors
> > > > > > > > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@tuweni.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Antoine Toulme <toulmean@apache.org> 于2022年12月5日周一 \
> > > > > > > > > 15:14写道：
> > > > > > > > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator
> > > > > > > > > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies
> > > > > > were
> > > > > > > > > > received.
> > > > > > > > > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community
> > > > > > [1], we
> > > > > > > > > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote
> > > > > > result
> > > > > > > > > > was published [3].
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating
> > > > > > Apache
> > > > > > > > > > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please provide your vote accordingly:
> > > > > > > > > > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache
> > > > > > > > Incubator.
> > > > > > > > > > [ ] +0 No opinion.
> > > > > > > > > > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, \
> > > > > > > > > > because...
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > least 72 hours.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > vote.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *Community*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation \
> > > > > > > > > > along
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > mentors.
> > > > > > > > > > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of
> > > > > > committers
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > 14 from 12 different
> > > > > > > > > > organizations.
> > > > > > > > > > ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing.
> > > > > > > > > > ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4].
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *Project*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other \
> > > > > > > > > > tools
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > aid
> > > > > > > > > > development of blockchain and other decentralized software in
> > > > > > Java and
> > > > > > > > > > other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library,
> > > > > > > > serialization
> > > > > > > > > > and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography
> > > > > > functions
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is
> > > > > > developed
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > JDK 11 or higher.
> > > > > > > > > > ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in \
> > > > > > > > > > [5] ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over \
> > > > > > > > > > 45 months.
> > > > > > > > > > ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6].
> > > > > > > > > > ● 331 pull requests created closed [7].
> > > > > > > > > > ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8].
> > > > > > > > > > ● The release cadence is about 3 months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *Brand, License, and Copyright*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been
> > > > > > > > > > reviewed and approved.
> > > > > > > > > > ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all
> > modules
> > > > > > > > > > code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the
> > > > > > > > > > dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues
> > [10].
> > > > > > > > > > All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to
> > > > > > date.
> > > > > > > > > > ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache \
> > > > > > > > > > Foundation requirements [12].
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5
> > > > > > > > > > [2]
> > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk
> > > > > > > > > > [3]
> > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665
> > > > > > > > > > [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?dev@tuweni.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html
> > > > > > > > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases
> > > > > > > > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls
> > > > > > > > > > [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues
> > > > > > > > > > [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167
> > > > > > > > > > [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE
> > > > > > > > > > [11] https://tuweni.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > Best Regards
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > DolphinScheduler PMC
> > > > > > > > > Gang Li 李岗
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > lgcareer@apache.org
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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