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List:       ietf
Subject:    Re: Spam in the IETF's name?
From:       Brian E Carpenter <brc () zurich ! ibm ! com>
Date:       2005-10-24 7:59:08
Message-ID: 435C944C.7090307 () zurich ! ibm ! com
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John C Klensin wrote:
> 
> --On Friday, 21 October, 2005 16:16 +0200 Brian E Carpenter
> <brc@zurich.ibm.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>As a hopefully constructive suggestion, perhaps people
>>can look at draft-hoffman-taobis-03.txt and see whether
>>it says enough in this whole area. Covering this in the
>>Tao seems right to me.
> 
> 
> Brian, it seems at least reasonable to me too.  But there is a
> missing link, for which general agreement (at least within the
> IESG) is needed, but for which no formal action is required:
> 
> The Tao is not exactly required reading.   Many of our
> participants don't know about it.   Many of those, especially
> from other organizations, who might be putting together
> IETF-related, but not IETF-associated, mailing lists and the
> like may be even less likely to know about it.  If, when someone
> comes to an AD and says "please put this mailing list on your
> list", the AD responds with "have you read XXX and do you
> understand that, if we list your list, we are going to expect
> that you will conform to the principles of Sections A, B, and
> C?", it would make the connection and be really helpful.
> 
> That brings us back, I think, to where we started.  At present,
> listing of an activity or mailing list on that web page creates
> the expectation of conformance with our IPR policies.  That
> expectation is reasonable and necessary but not, IMO,
> sufficient.  We should also have the expectation of conformance
> with some reasonable community norms of behavior in addition to
> the IPR ones.  To the extent to which the Tao is our best
> description of those norms, pointing to it is entirely
> appropriate.  But, just as with the IPR case, we must not only
> have the relevant documents, but someone or something must do
> the pointing.

I agree. I always point newcomers to the Tao, and I believe we
should all do so. The "overview" page on the web site does so
too.

    Brian


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