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List:       helix-open-discuss
Subject:    Re: [hxdiscuss] Does the Win32 client player actually work....???
From:       Rob Lanphier <robla () real ! com>
Date:       2003-04-18 22:59:35
Message-ID: 1050706775.2517.106.camel () dhcppc4
[Download RAW message or body]

Hi PubPost,

Thanks for taking the time to talk this one through.  I think this is a
good discussion to have, because based on what you're saying, we haven't
made our goals clear.  As a result, you're getting the sense that an
implied social contract has been broken.

When we launched the community and released the source code for the
Helix DNA Client, our goal was to enable the industry to use the same
great media playback technology that we use.  We did that, because we
realized that the industry is very fragmented right now, and we wanted
to put something out there that everyone could rally around.  So, we
made the source code for our media engine available under an open source
license.

To be clear, one thing that was never a goal was for RealNetworks to
replace the RealOne Player with an alternate player.  Our focus remains
on improving RealOne Player.  What's changed is that we're giving others
the abilities to either improve on what we do, and/or create new players
not from RealNetworks.  While no one has done that on the Windows
platform just yet, that doesn't mean it will never happen.

What you are going to find is that there's been a *lot* of continuing
work on the media engine, because that's the part that matters to our
commercial products.  We released the Helix DNA Client as a starting
point for anyone who would like to build on top of it, and we're seeing
some promising developments.  For example, we just checked in some
pretty big changes to the Linux client interface from a community member
(Ryan Gammon), and he's taken the lead in doing more work there.  We're
hopeful that more folks will follow his lead.  We may even do more work
on these ourselves, but as I said, our focus remains on the media
engine.

So, in short, sorry to disappoint, but I'm not sure I can promise better
things in the future.  We're a commercial software company (publicly
traded), and there's only so much of our work we can give away.  The
only way to be sure that things will improve *for you* is for you to
contribute.  Contributing isn't just a matter of writing code; it could
be bug reports, documentation, advocacy, whatever.  Heck, you could even
go hire someone to write a player for you.  ;-)

Tongue in cheek comments aside, I really do hope that you'll stay, and
even better contribute.  Looking forward to more conversations.

Rob
--- 
Rob Lanphier, Helix Community Coordinator - RealNetworks
http://helixcommunity.org http://rtsp.org http://realnetworks.com


On Fri, 2003-04-18 at 11:29, PubPost@yahoo.com wrote:
> --- Michael Maloney <mmaloney@real.com> wrote:
> > On Thursday, April 17, 2003, at 07:39 PM,
> > PubPost@yahoo.com wrote:
> > 
> > <snip>
> > And I was really expecting a reply like "No, it
> > doesn't work yet, that's why it's only 'release 4'
> > rather than an official 1.0"
> > </snip>
> > 
> > It *is* called Developer Release 4 for a reason ;)
> 
> Actually, I think it's only called "Release" on the
> web page itself.  It didn't say 'pre-Alpha' or 'Alpha'
> or 'Beta' or anything like that.
> 
> Still, the stuff has been under development now for,
> what 6 months at least... I figured that by now it'd
> be working, especially since Real took existing
> working code, cleaned it up, and made that available.
> 
> I was kind of expecting the player to just be, well,
> RealPlayer 8 "Lite".  All the extras and frills
> stripped out down to just a barebone player.  I
> figured Real would have done that just to give a nice
> demonstration program, rather than forcing developers
> to start from scratch.  (Kind of like how video game
> console makers will throw in a free game, just so the
> cardboard box doesn't become more interesting than the
> gameless console.)  I didn't read anything that
> suggested it, it was just an assumption on my part.
> 
> I can't download the patches for RealPlayer because it
> only dose automatic updating.  (I'm a *VERY* firm
> believer in keeping a copy of all patches for the
> programs I use.  I strongly dislike automatic updating
> that doesn't let me download and install the patches
> myself.)
> 
> And I can't stand RealOne.
> 
> So I figured that surely by now, the semi-open source
> Helix player was probably decent and stable by now and
> that I should give it a try.
> 
> I was definetly surprised by how limited it was and by
> it not working.
> 
> > <snip>
> > I was strongly hoping that the Helix player would
> > actually be useful.  
> > Only reason I signed up here.
> > </snip>
> > 
> > Was your motivation; to get a free player, or to
> 
> Solely for the player as a replacment for RealPlayer
> and as an alternative to RealOne.
> 
> Oh sure, if you made regular snapshots of the source
> code available for easy download (ie: a zip file or
> something), I'd download it just to say I have it. 
> But I don't have enough interest in it to figure out
> how your cvs system works and download it that way. 
> And I certainly wouldn't have the tools necessary to
> build your product (unless GCC MingW would work...)
> 
> That's pretty much the extent of my interest in the
> source.
> 
> I very firmly fall into the category of "end user" who
> was looking for a replacement for RealPlayer.  I was
> very hesitant to sign the 'Binary' license just to
> download the player, but I figured it was probably no
> worse than Real's other player licenses, so I just
> finally clicked 'okay' without reading it.  (Hey, who
> can actually read and understand a license??!  They
> are written by lawyers for lawyers.)
> 
> > If it is the former than realize you are comparing a
> > fairly 'young',  
> > beta product to a commercial product with many years
> 
> I didn't figure it'd be all that young.
> 
> From all the hype that was done when Helix was
> released last year, I was kind of expecting the 'demo'
> player to be, well, as  said above, RealPlayer "Lite".
> 
> It's been more than 6 months for the player.  I was
> still expecting working code by now.
> 
> 
> 
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