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List: haskell-cafe
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell to Ethereum VM ?
From: "Gregory Popovitch" <greg7mdp () gmail ! com>
Date: 2018-01-27 2:48:08
Message-ID: D29D098764B44187A474A16D8C231766 () gregava
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Hi Takenobu,
You are very welcome. Indeed I think that Cardano made all the right
technical choices, and looks extremely promising. I am not the only one
feeling that way, and Cardono, even before being released, has now the 5th
highest market cap of all crypto currencies. The repeated issues with
Solidity, which was designed for ease of use instead of correctness, make a
lot of people feel that Cardano and its Haskell inspired scripting languages
would be a much better choice for writing reliable and correct smart
contracts.
Good luck in your exploration. I'd like to learn more about it as well.
Thanks,
gregory
_____
From: Takenobu Tani [mailto:takenobu.hs@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:28 PM
To: Gregory Popovitch
Cc: haskell-cafe
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell to Ethereum VM ?
Hi Gregory,
Thank you for much information.
I have heard Cardano, but I did not know the details.
It's amazing!
Although Ethereum VM is stack based virtual machine,
Cardano's IELE(VM) is register based VM!, it's powerfull and beautiful!
In addition, it is protected by semantics.
Umm, High-level safety abstructed language (Haskell based) + register based
VM (IELE) !
It's amazing.
Thank you for telling me details.
I will explore this.
Thank you very much,
Takenobu
2018-01-27 10:22 GMT+09:00 Gregory Popovitch <greg7mdp@gmail.com>:
Probably you are aware of Cardano (https://www.cardanohub.org/
<https://www.cardanohub.org/en/home/> en/home/), a new generation blockchain
platform which uses languages inspired from Haskell. From the whitepaper at
https://whycardano.com/:
"Systems such as Bitcoin provide an extremely inflexible and draconian
scripting language that is difficult to program bespoke transactions in, and
to read and understand. Yet the general programmability of languages such as
Solidity introduce an extraordinary amount of complexity into the system and
are useful to only a much smaller set of actors.
Therefore, we have chosen to design a new language called Simon6
<https://whycardano.com/#footnote6> in honor of its creator Simon Thompson
and the creator of the concepts that inspired it, Simon Peyton Jones. Simon
is a domain-specific language that is based upon Composing contracts: an
adventure in financial
<https://www.lexifi.com/files/resources/MLFiPaper.pdf> engineering.
The principal idea is that financial transactions are generally composed
from a collection of foundational elements7
<https://whycardano.com/#footnote7> . If one assembles a financial periodic
table of elements, then one can provide support for an arbitrarily large set
of compound transactions that will cover most, if not all, common
transaction types without requiring general programmability.
The primary advantage is that security and execution can be extremely well
understood. Proofs can be written to show correctness of templates and
exhaust the execution space of problematic transaction events, such as the
creation of new <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident> money
out of thin air or transaction malleability
<https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability> . Second, one can
leave in extensions to add more elements by way of soft forks if new
functionality is required.
That said, there will always be a need to connect CSL to overlay protocols,
legacy financial systems, and special purpose servers. Thus we have
developed Plutus <https://github.com/input-output-hk/plutus-prototype> as
both a general purpose smart contract language and also a special purpose
DSL for interoperability.
Plutus is a typed functional language based on concepts from Haskell, which
can be used to write custom transaction scripts. For CSL, it will be used
for complex transactions required to add support for other layers we need to
connect, such as our sidechains scheme."
_____
From: Haskell-Cafe [mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@
<mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org> haskell.org] On Behalf Of Takenobu
Tani
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 8:05 PM
To: Patrick Mylund Nielsen
Cc: haskell-cafe
Subject: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell to Ethereum VM ?
Hi Carter, Patrick,
Thank you for reply.
Quorum is interesting!
It would be very nice to be able to describe Ethereum's contract with
Haskell DSL.
The characteristics about immutable and type will fit DApps.
Thank you very much,
Takenobu
2018-01-27 2:55 GMT+09:00 Patrick Mylund Nielsen <haskell@patrickmn.com>:
The Quorum[1] team has been dreaming about such a
Haskell-beginner-friendly bytecode-generating DSL for a very long time.
The user experience of writing applications in a language where pitfalls
are so non-obvious is one of the biggest pain points of Ethereum in general.
We would warmly welcome something like this, and would definitely look
to use it in Quorum. (Our EVM is the same as public Ethereum.)
[1]: A permissioned/non-PoW version of Ethereum with high throughput and
privacy - https://github.com/jpmorgancha
<https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/> se/quorum/
On 1/26/2018 11:43 AM, Carter Schonwald wrote:
> Hello Takenobu,
> while theres definitely a lot of haskell code out there that deals with
> ethereum (or implementing it!), i'm not aware of anything targeting the
> evm isa from haskell or any other mature functional programming language
>
> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:09 AM, Takenobu Tani <takenobu.hs@gmail.com
> <mailto:takenobu.hs@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi cafe,
>
> Does anyone know about the code generator from Haskell's syntax to
> Ethereum VM language (bytecode)?
> That is, what corresponds to Solidity in Haskell.
>
> Although Solidity is interesting, it's difficult for me to achieve
> quality and safety.
> Does such a project already exist?
>
> Regards,
> Takenobu
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>Hi Takenobu,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>You are very welcome. Indeed I think that Cardano made all the
right technical choices, and looks extremely promising. I am not the only one
feeling that way, and Cardono, even before being released, has now the 5th
highest market cap of all crypto currencies. The repeated issues with Solidity,
which was designed for ease of use instead of correctness, make a lot of people
feel that Cardano and its Haskell inspired scripting languages would be a much
better choice for writing reliable and correct smart
contracts.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>Good luck in your exploration. I'd like to learn more about it as
well.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=443474102-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>gregory</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Takenobu Tani
[mailto:takenobu.hs@gmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 26, 2018 9:28
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Gregory Popovitch<BR><B>Cc:</B> haskell-cafe<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell to Ethereum VM ?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Gregory,<BR><BR>Thank you for much information.<BR>I have heard
Cardano, but I did not know the details.<BR><BR>It's amazing!<BR><BR>Although
Ethereum VM is stack based virtual machine, <BR>Cardano's IELE(VM) is register
based VM!, it's powerfull and beautiful!<BR>In addition, it is protected by
semantics.<BR><BR>Umm, High-level safety abstructed language (Haskell based) +
register based VM (IELE) !<BR>It's amazing.<BR><BR>Thank you for telling me
details.<BR>I will explore this.<BR><BR>Thank you very
much,<BR>Takenobu<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2018-01-27 10:22 GMT+09:00 Gregory Popovitch <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:greg7mdp@gmail.com"
target=_blank>greg7mdp@gmail.com</A>></SPAN>:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex"><U></U> <DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=m_-1728815040249541742776561701-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>Probably you are aware of Cardano (<A
href="https://www.cardanohub.org/en/home/"
target=_blank>https://www.cardanohub.org/<WBR>en/home/</A>), a new generation
blockchain platform which uses languages inspired from Haskell. From the
whitepaper at <A href="https://whycardano.com/"
target=_blank>https://whycardano.com/</A>:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=m_-1728815040249541742776561701-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN
class=m_-1728815040249541742776561701-27012018><FONT color=#000080
face=Calibri>"Systems such as Bitcoin provide an extremely inflexible and
draconian scripting language that is difficult to program bespoke transactions
in, and to read and understand. Yet the general programmability of languages
such as Solidity introduce an extraordinary amount of complexity into the
system and are useful to only a much smaller set of actors.
<P
style='BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open \
Sans",sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; \
FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px; \
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(250,251,252); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-decoration-style: \
initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>Therefore, we have chosen to design a new \
language called Simon<SUP style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 10px; \
VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; LINE-HEIGHT: 0"><A style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; \
TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: rgb(31,107,206); OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; \
OUTLINE-STYLE: none !important; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert !important" \
href="https://whycardano.com/#footnote6" \
target=_blank>6</A></SUP><SPAN> </SPAN>in honor of its creator Simon Thompson \
and the creator of the concepts that inspired it, Simon Peyton Jones. Simon is a \
domain-specific language that is based upon<SPAN> </SPAN><EM \
style="BOX-SIZING: border-box"><A style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; TEXT-DECORATION: \
none; COLOR: rgb(31,107,206); OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; OUTLINE-STYLE: none \
!important; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert !important" \
href="https://www.lexifi.com/files/resources/MLFiPaper.pdf" target=_blank>Composing \
contracts: an adventure in financial engineering</A></EM>.</P>
<P
style='BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open \
Sans",sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; \
FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px; \
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(250,251,252); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-decoration-style: \
initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>The principal idea is that financial \
transactions are generally composed from a collection of foundational elements<SUP
style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 10px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; \
LINE-HEIGHT: 0"><A style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: \
rgb(31,107,206); OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; OUTLINE-STYLE: none !important; \
OUTLINE-COLOR: invert !important" href="https://whycardano.com/#footnote7" \
target=_blank>7</A></SUP>. If one assembles a financial periodic table of elements, \
then one can provide support for an arbitrarily large set of compound transactions \
that will cover most, if not all, common transaction types without requiring \
general programmability.</P>
<P
style='BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open \
Sans",sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; \
FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px; \
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(250,251,252); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-decoration-style: \
initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>The primary advantage is that security and \
execution can be extremely well understood. Proofs can be written to show \
correctness of templates and exhaust the execution space of problematic transaction \
events, such as the creation of<SPAN> </SPAN><A
style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: rgb(31,107,206); \
OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; OUTLINE-STYLE: none !important; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert \
!important" href="https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident" \
target=_blank>new money out of thin \
air</A><SPAN> </SPAN>or<SPAN> </SPAN><A style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; \
TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: rgb(31,107,206); OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; \
OUTLINE-STYLE: none !important; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert !important" \
href="https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_Malleability" \
target=_blank>transaction malleability</A>. Second, one can leave in extensions to \
add more elements by way of soft forks if new functionality is required.</P>
<P
style='BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open \
Sans",sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; \
FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px; \
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(250,251,252); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-decoration-style: \
initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>That said, there will always be a need to \
connect CSL to overlay protocols, legacy financial systems, and special purpose \
servers. Thus we have developed<SPAN> </SPAN><A
style="BOX-SIZING: border-box; TEXT-DECORATION: none; COLOR: rgb(31,107,206); \
OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px !important; OUTLINE-STYLE: none !important; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert \
!important" href="https://github.com/input-output-hk/plutus-prototype"
target=_blank>Plutus</A><SPAN> </SPAN>as both a general purpose smart
contract language and also a special purpose DSL for interoperability.</P>
<P
style='BOX-SIZING: border-box; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: "Open \
Sans",sans-serif; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; \
FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: rgb(85,85,85); FONT-STYLE: normal; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px; \
LETTER-SPACING: normal; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(250,251,252); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; \
font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-decoration-style: \
initial; text-decoration-color: initial'>Plutus is a typed functional language \
based on concepts from Haskell, which can be used to write custom transaction \
scripts. For CSL, it will be used for complex transactions required to add support \
for other layers we need to connect, such as our sidechains scheme.<SPAN
class=m_-1728815040249541742776561701-27012018>"</SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV lang=en-us class=m_-1728815040249541742OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr
align=left>
<HR>
<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> Haskell-Cafe [mailto:<A
href="mailto:haskell-cafe-bounces@haskell.org"
target=_blank>haskell-cafe-bounces@<WBR>haskell.org</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Takenobu Tani<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, January 26, 2018 8:05
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Patrick Mylund Nielsen<BR><B>Cc:</B>
haskell-cafe<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell to Ethereum VM
?<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Carter, Patrick,<BR><BR>Thank you for reply.<BR>Quorum is
interesting!<BR>It would be very nice to be able to describe Ethereum's
contract with Haskell DSL.<BR>The characteristics about immutable and type
will fit DApps.<BR><BR>Thank you very much,<BR>Takenobu<BR><BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2018-01-27 2:55 GMT+09:00 Patrick Mylund Nielsen <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:haskell@patrickmn.com"
target=_blank>haskell@patrickmn.com</A>></SPAN>:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex">The Quorum[1] team has been dreaming about such \
a<BR>Haskell-beginner-friendly bytecode-generating DSL for a very long time.<BR>The \
user experience of writing applications in a language where pitfalls<BR>are so \
non-obvious is one of the biggest pain points of Ethereum in general.<BR><BR>We \
would warmly welcome something like this, and would definitely look<BR>to use it
in Quorum. (Our EVM is the same as public Ethereum.)<BR><BR>[1]: A
permissioned/non-PoW version of Ethereum with high throughput and<BR>privacy
- <A href="https://github.com/jpmorganchase/quorum/" rel=noreferrer
target=_blank>https://github.com/jpmorgancha<WBR>se/quorum/</A><BR><SPAN
class="m_-1728815040249541742im m_-1728815040249541742HOEnZb"><BR>On
1/26/2018 11:43 AM, Carter Schonwald wrote:<BR>> Hello
Takenobu, <BR>> while theres definitely a lot of haskell code out
there that deals with<BR>> ethereum (or implementing it!), i'm not aware
of anything targeting the<BR>> evm isa from haskell or any other mature
functional programming language<BR>><BR>> On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 8:09
AM, Takenobu Tani <<A href="mailto:takenobu.hs@gmail.com"
target=_blank>takenobu.hs@gmail.com</A><BR></SPAN>
<DIV class=m_-1728815040249541742HOEnZb>
<DIV class=m_-1728815040249541742h5>> <mailto:<A
href="mailto:takenobu.hs@gmail.com"
target=_blank>takenobu.hs@gmail.com</A>><WBR>>
wrote:<BR>><BR>> Hi cafe,<BR>><BR>>
Does anyone know about the code generator from Haskell's syntax
to<BR>> Ethereum VM language (bytecode)?<BR>>
That is, what corresponds to Solidity in
Haskell.<BR>><BR>> Although Solidity is
interesting, it's difficult for me to achieve<BR>>
quality and safety.<BR>> Does such a project
already exist?<BR>><BR>> Regards,<BR>>
Takenobu<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
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