'RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)'

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List: gter
Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
From: "Reinaldo Penno" <reinaldo_penno () nortelnetworks ! com>
Date: 2002-04-16 8:22:00
Message-ID: 7B802811BE77D51189910002A55CFD2C01EFC485 () zsc3c032 ! us ! nortel ! com
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Esse projeto ja eh bem antigo. Eh obrigatorio para quem goata de QoS.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Claus Rugani Topke [mailto:claus@kerntec.net]
>Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:13 PM
>To: gter@eng.registro.br
>Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>
>
>Navegando nas apresentações do Saint2002, achei o seguinte:
>http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/~kjc/software.html
>
>
>
>At 16:08 15/4/2002 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>Sim Claus, seria apenas
>>http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/
>>
>>Foi um pequeno problema de zzzz.
>>
>>
>>Rubens
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: gter-admin@eng.registro.br 
>[mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br] On
>>Behalf Of Claus Rugani Topke
>>Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 3:42 PM
>>To: gter@eng.registro.br
>>Subject: Re: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>>
>>
>>At 00:34 15/4/2002 -0300, you wrote:
>> >
>> >Uma apresentação interessante a esse respeito:
>> 
>><http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf>http://ww
>w.itrc.ne
>> >t/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf
>>
>>Muito boa !
>>
>> >
>> >Aliás, essa conferência tem várias palestras interessantes ligadas a
>> >medições:
>> 
>><http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf>http://ww
>w.itrc.ne
>>t/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf
>>Seria http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/  ???
>>
>>
>>Claus
>>
>>
>> >Rubens Kühl Jr.
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <mailto:reinaldo_penno@nortelnetworks.com>Reinaldo Penno
>> >To: <mailto:gter@eng.registro.br>gter@eng.registro.br
>> >Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:35 PM
>> >Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>> >
>> >Na verdade o CRANE eh muito usado em enterprises. Conheco mais de 20
>> >vendors que o implementa. E so foi tornado publico a pouco tempo.
>> >O LFAP eh um protocolo da riverstone, que apesar de ser um empresa
>>jovem
>> >ja emplacou seu protocolo de flow accounting.
>> >
>> >O netflow foi o precursor.
>> >O IPfix WG escolhera um dos tres para se tornar o padrao. Acho que
>> >discutir qual o proposito de um protocolo de flow 
>accounting, como sao
>>os
>> >flow records/templates, a nomenclatura e o que ela 
>significa (exporter,
>>
>> >collector, mediator) sem falar em productos seria benefica 
>pois todos
>>os
>> >protocolos seguem a mesma linha.
>> >Poderiamos entao entrar nos especificos.
>> >abracos,
>> >
>> >Reinaldo
>> >
>> > >-----Original Message-----
>> > >From: Manta, Marcelo [BLMES:0B70:EXCH]
>> > >Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:07 AM
>> > >To: gter@eng.registro.br
>> > >Subject: Re: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >É deve falar na última transparência, como exemplos de outras
>> > >iniciativas que não decolaram certo? ;-)
>> > >
>> > >PS: Certo, vamos dar uma chance para o IPfix.
>> > >
>> > >"Penno, Reinaldo [SC9:T327:EXCH]" wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> tutorial deve falar/comparar com os outros protocolos do
>> > >genero, CRANE
>> > >> (Xacct), LFAP (Riverstone). Alem de falar sobre o IPfix.
>> > >>
>> > >> abracos,
>> > >>
>> > >> Reinaldo
>> > >>
>> > >> >-----Original Message-----
>> > >> >From: Claus Rugani Topke
>> > [<mailto:claus@kerntec.net>mailto:claus@kerntec.net]
>> > >> >Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:13 AM
>> > >> >To: gter@eng.registro.br
>> > >> >Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >At 11:11 12/4/2002 -0300, you wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >>E já temos um Clausdidato a dar esse tutorial...
>> > >> >
>> > >> >:-)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >>Rubens
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>-----Original Message-----
>> > >> >>From: gter-admin@eng.registro.br
>> > >> 
>>[<mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br>mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro
>> > >> >.br]
>> >   On
>> > >> >>Behalf Of Fernando Krahe
>> > >> >>Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 10:24 AM
>> > >> >>To: gter@eng.registro.br
>> > >> >>Subject: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral)
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > >> >>Hash: SHA1
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Agora que mencionaste, me lembrei que Netflow poderia 
>ser um bom
>> > >> >>tutorial para um proximo evento. Recordo de um interessante
>> > >> >>tutorial em um Nanog recente que abordava "Basic ISP Traffic
>> > >> >Engineering
>> > >> >>Tools and Practices". Esse tutorial abordava varias 
>ferramentas
>> > >> uteis
>> > >> >>mas que poucos conhecem/implementam. Alem de Netflow, tinha
>> > >> Flowscan,
>> > >> >>Cflow, RRDTool, ... Esses temas poderiam constar da lista de
>> > >> >sugestao de
>> > >> >>apresentacoes, se eh que ja nao estao.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Fernando
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>- ----- Original Message -----
>> > >> >>From: "Leandro Bertholdo" <berthold@penta.ufrgs.br>
>> > >> >>To: <gter@eng.registro.br>
>> > >> >>Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:39 PM
>> > >> >>Subject: Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Oi Demi,
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> >meta. Certamente concordo que não há muito espaço para
>> > >> >> >inciativas heróicas...
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Humm...
>> > >> >>Acho que muitas vezes a questao nao eh heroismo, mas sim
>> > >necessidade
>> > >> e
>> > >> >>bom senso. Por exemplo, aqui no Rio Grande do Sul a distancia
>> > >> >geodeseica
>> > >> >>entre o CPD da UFRGS (onde hoje esta o PTT) e provedores de
>> > >> >informacoes
>> > >> >>como Terra, ClickRBS e Procergs (sendo os dois ultimos "peso
>> > >> >pena" - nas
>> > >> >>palavras do Manta :-)  nao passa de 5Km. No entanto, a
>> > >> acessibilidade
>> > >> >>estadual depende da conectividade e custo de 
>interligacao a Sao
>> > >> Paulo.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>O custo torna o PTT uma boa ideia (nao heroica). É
>> > >matematica. Basta
>> > >>
>> > >> >>considerar uma matriz de trafego (regional x nacional) - essa
>> > >> >>mesma matriz, que ai em Sao Paulo faz pouco sentido.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Por aqui os "peso pena" juntos tem uma representacao bem
>> > >> significativa
>> > >> >>no trafego total. Embora alguns ainda nao tenham se dado
>> > >> >conta, ou seja,
>> > >> >>não fizeram o dever de casa instalando um netflow e 
>analisando o
>> > >> >>trafego....
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Acredito firmemente que esse mesmo argumento sirva para duas
>> > >> >>outras cidades como Rio de Janeiro e Belo Horizonte. É so as
>> > >> >>instituicoes
>> > >> com
>> > >> >>representabilidade em cada cidade tentarem se organizar. A
>> > >> viabilidade
>> > >> >>economica é totalmente mensuravel (custo/Mb_SP X
>> > >custo/Mb_regional),
>> > >>
>> > >> >>embora a decisao seja politica/estrategica.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>Atenciosamente
>> > >> >>Leandro Marcio Bertholdo
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>- --
>> > >> >>GTER
>> > list
>> >
>><http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter>http://eng.regis
>tro.br/mai
>>lman/listinfo/gter
>> >
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > >> >>Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use
>> > >> <<http://www.pgp.com>http://www.pgp.com>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> 
>>>iQA/AwUBPLbfIRI8nj9lgleaEQJIJQCglgbVgZ+OfHks4Wtsf0yaaT4MHDQAnAj9
>> > >> >>RQzRW51U6rnQxLXurV7Brwbr
>> > >> >>=/8Hx
>> > >> >>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>--
>> > >> >>GTER
>> > list
>> >
>><http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter>http://eng.regis
tro.br/mai
>lman/listinfo/gter
> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >>--
> > >> >>GTER
> > list
> >
><http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter>http://eng.registro.br/mai
>lman/listinfo/gter
> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >--
> > >> >GTER
> > list
> >
><http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter>http://eng.registro.br/mai
>lman/listinfo/gter
> >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Marcelo Manta
> > >Barcelona Technology Center
> > >manta@nortelnetworks.com
> > >phone: +34 67 699-5921 (ESN 746)
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >GTER
> > list
> >
><http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter>http://eng.registro.br/mai
>lman/listinfo/gter
> >
> > >
>
>
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Esse projeto ja eh bem antigo. Eh obrigatorio para quem goata de \
QoS.

&gt;-----Original Message-----
 &gt;From: Claus Rugani Topke [<A \
HREF="mailto:claus@kerntec.net">mailto:claus@kerntec.net</A>] &gt;Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:13 PM &gt;To: \
gter@eng.registro.br &gt;Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] \
NAP Carrier Neutral) &gt;
 &gt;
 &gt;Navegando nas apresentações do Saint2002, achei o \
seguinte: &gt;<A \
HREF="http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/~kjc/software.html" \
TARGET="_blank">http://www.csl.sony.co.jp/~kjc/software.html</A> &gt; &gt;
 &gt;
 &gt;At 16:08 15/4/2002 -0300, you wrote:
 &gt;
 &gt;&gt;Sim Claus, seria apenas
 &gt;&gt;<A HREF="http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/" \
TARGET="_blank">http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/</A> &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Foi um pequeno problema de \
zzzz. &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;Rubens
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;-----Original Message-----
 &gt;&gt;From: gter-admin@eng.registro.br 
 &gt;[<A \
HREF="mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br">mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br</A>] \
On &gt;&gt;Behalf Of Claus Rugani Topke
 &gt;&gt;Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 3:42 PM
 &gt;&gt;To: gter@eng.registro.br
 &gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier \
Neutral) &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;At 00:34 15/4/2002 -0300, you wrote:
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Uma apresentação interessante a esse respeito:
 &gt;&gt; 
 &gt;&gt;&lt;<A \
HREF="http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf" \
TARGET="_blank">http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://ww" TARGET="_blank">http://ww</A> &gt;w.itrc.ne &gt;&gt; \
&gt;t/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;Muito boa !
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Aliás, essa conferência tem várias palestras \
interessantes ligadas a &gt;&gt; &gt;medições:
 &gt;&gt; 
 &gt;&gt;&lt;<A \
HREF="http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf" \
TARGET="_blank">http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://ww" TARGET="_blank">http://ww</A> &gt;w.itrc.ne &gt;&gt;t/sympo/saint2002/pdf/Quittek.pdf &gt;&gt;Seria <A HREF="http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/" \
TARGET="_blank">http://www.itrc.net/sympo/saint2002/</A>&nbsp; ??? &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;Claus
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Rubens Kühl Jr.
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;----- Original Message -----
 &gt;&gt; &gt;From: &lt;<A \
HREF="mailto:reinaldo_penno@nortelnetworks.com">mailto:reinaldo_penno@nortelnetworks.com</A>&gt;Reinaldo \
Penno &gt;&gt; &gt;To: &lt;<A \
HREF="mailto:gter@eng.registro.br">mailto:gter@eng.registro.br</A>&gt;gter@eng.registro.br
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:35 PM
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier \
Neutral) &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Na verdade o CRANE eh muito usado em enterprises. \
Conheco mais de 20 &gt;&gt; &gt;vendors que o implementa. E \
so foi tornado publico a pouco tempo. &gt;&gt; &gt;O LFAP eh \
um protocolo da riverstone, que apesar de ser um empresa &gt;&gt;jovem &gt;&gt; &gt;ja emplacou seu protocolo \
de flow accounting. &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;O netflow foi o precursor.
 &gt;&gt; &gt;O IPfix WG escolhera um dos tres para se tornar o \
padrao. Acho que &gt;&gt; &gt;discutir qual o proposito de um \
protocolo de flow &gt;accounting, como sao
 &gt;&gt;os
 &gt;&gt; &gt;flow records/templates, a nomenclatura e o que ela \
 &gt;significa (exporter,
 &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;collector, mediator) sem falar em productos seria \
benefica &gt;pois todos
 &gt;&gt;os
 &gt;&gt; &gt;protocolos seguem a mesma linha.
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Poderiamos entao entrar nos especificos.
 &gt;&gt; &gt;abracos,
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt;Reinaldo
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;-----Original Message-----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;From: Manta, Marcelo [BLMES:0B70:EXCH]
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 10:07 AM
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;To: gter@eng.registro.br
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier \
Neutral) &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;É deve falar na última transparência, como \
exemplos de outras &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;iniciativas que não \
decolaram certo? ;-) &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;PS: Certo, vamos dar uma chance para o \
IPfix. &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&quot;Penno, Reinaldo [SC9:T327:EXCH]&quot; \
wrote: &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; tutorial deve falar/comparar com os outros \
protocolos do &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;genero, CRANE
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; (Xacct), LFAP (Riverstone). Alem de falar \
sobre o IPfix. &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; abracos,
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Reinaldo
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;-----Original Message-----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;From: Claus Rugani Topke
 &gt;&gt; &gt; [&lt;<A \
HREF="mailto:claus@kerntec.net">mailto:claus@kerntec.net</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="mailto:claus@kerntec.net">mailto:claus@kerntec.net</A>] &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 8:13 AM \
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;To: gter@eng.registro.br &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier \
Neutral) &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;At 11:11 12/4/2002 -0300, you \
wrote: &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;E já temos um Clausdidato a dar esse \
tutorial... &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;:-)
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Rubens
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;-----Original Message-----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;From: \
gter-admin@eng.registro.br &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; 
 &gt;&gt;[&lt;<A \
HREF="mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br">mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro.br</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro">mailto:gter-admin@eng.registro</A> \
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;.br] &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; On &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Behalf Of \
Fernando Krahe &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Sent: Friday, \
April 12, 2002 10:24 AM &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;To: \
gter@eng.registro.br &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Subject: \
Netfow (era Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral) &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED \
MESSAGE----- &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Hash: SHA1
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Agora que mencionaste, me lembrei que \
Netflow poderia &gt;ser um bom
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;tutorial para um proximo evento. \
Recordo de um interessante &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;tutorial em um Nanog recente que abordava &quot;Basic ISP Traffic \
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;Engineering &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Tools and Practices&quot;. Esse tutorial \
abordava varias &gt;ferramentas
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; uteis
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;mas que poucos conhecem/implementam. \
Alem de Netflow, tinha &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
Flowscan, &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Cflow, RRDTool, ... \
Esses temas poderiam constar da lista de &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;sugestao de &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;apresentacoes, se eh que ja nao estao. &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;Fernando &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;- ----- Original Message -----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;From: &quot;Leandro Bertholdo&quot; \
&lt;berthold@penta.ufrgs.br&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;To: &lt;gter@eng.registro.br&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 3:39 PM &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Subject: Re: [GTER] NAP Carrier Neutral \
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Oi \
Demi, &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;meta. Certamente concordo que \
não há muito espaço para &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;inciativas heróicas... &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Humm...
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Acho que muitas vezes a questao nao \
eh heroismo, mas sim &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;necessidade
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; e
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;bom senso. Por exemplo, aqui no Rio \
Grande do Sul a distancia &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;geodeseica &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;entre o CPD da \
UFRGS (onde hoje esta o PTT) e provedores de &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;informacoes &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;como \
Terra, ClickRBS e Procergs (sendo os dois ultimos &quot;peso &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;pena&quot; - nas &gt;&gt; \
&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;palavras do Manta :-)&nbsp; nao passa de 5Km. No entanto, \
a &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; acessibilidade
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;estadual depende da conectividade e \
custo de &gt;interligacao a Sao
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; Paulo.
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;O custo torna o PTT uma boa ideia \
(nao heroica). É &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;matematica. Basta
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;considerar uma matriz de trafego \
(regional x nacional) - essa &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;mesma matriz, que ai em Sao Paulo faz pouco sentido. &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;Por aqui os &quot;peso pena&quot; juntos tem uma representacao bem \
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; significativa &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;no trafego total. Embora alguns ainda nao \
tenham se dado &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;conta, ou \
seja, &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;não fizeram o dever de \
casa instalando um netflow e &gt;analisando o
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;trafego....
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Acredito firmemente que esse mesmo \
argumento sirva para duas &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;outras cidades como Rio de Janeiro e Belo Horizonte. É so as &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;instituicoes &gt;&gt; \
&gt; &gt;&gt; com &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
&gt;&gt;representabilidade em cada cidade tentarem se organizar. A &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; viabilidade &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;economica é totalmente mensuravel (custo/Mb_SP X &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;custo/Mb_regional), &gt;&gt; &gt; \
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;embora a decisao seja \
politica/estrategica. &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Atenciosamente
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Leandro Marcio Bertholdo
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;- --
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;GTER
 &gt;&gt; &gt; list
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt;&lt;<A HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://eng.regis" TARGET="_blank">http://eng.regis</A> &gt;tro.br/mai &gt;&gt;lman/listinfo/gter
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for \
non-commercial use &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &lt;&lt;<A \
HREF="http://www.pgp.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.pgp.com</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://www.pgp.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.pgp.com</A>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; \
 &gt;&gt;&gt;iQA/AwUBPLbfIRI8nj9lgleaEQJIJQCglgbVgZ+OfHks4Wtsf0yaaT4MHDQAnAj9
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;RQzRW51U6rnQxLXurV7Brwbr
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;=/8Hx
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;--
 &gt;&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;GTER
 &gt;&gt; &gt; list
 &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt;&gt;&lt;<A HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://eng.regis" TARGET="_blank">http://eng.regis</A> tro.br/mai &gt;lman/listinfo/gter
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;--
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;GTER
 &gt; &gt; list
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&lt;<A HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mai" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mai</A> &gt;lman/listinfo/gter &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;--
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;GTER
 &gt; &gt; list
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&lt;<A HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mai" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mai</A> &gt;lman/listinfo/gter &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;&gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;--
 &gt; &gt; &gt;Marcelo Manta
 &gt; &gt; &gt;Barcelona Technology Center
 &gt; &gt; &gt;manta@nortelnetworks.com
 &gt; &gt; &gt;phone: +34 67 699-5921 (ESN 746)
 &gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;--
 &gt; &gt; &gt;GTER
 &gt; &gt; list
 &gt; &gt;
 &gt;&lt;<A HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A>&gt;<A \
HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mai" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mai</A> &gt;lman/listinfo/gter &gt; &gt;
 &gt; &gt; &gt;
 &gt;
 &gt;
 &gt;--
 &gt;GTER list&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A \
HREF="http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter" \
TARGET="_blank">http://eng.registro.br/mailman/listinfo/gter</A> &gt; &gt;--
 &gt;GTER list&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A \
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