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List:       gentoo-project
Subject:    Re: [gentoo-project] Fw: Your temporary 2 week suspension on interacting on the Gentoo Github page
From:       Dale <rdalek1967 () gmail ! com>
Date:       2017-05-17 14:16:58
Message-ID: 52beef3a-9966-6059-7aee-f9a2525913df () gmail ! com
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Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> On Tue, 16 May 2017, Dale wrote:
>
>
> Dale,
>
> yes we're aware we have some issues. Several of us have acknowledged
> that.
> The main issue we have is lack of man power, in general and on
> specific areas. Then we have developers losing motivation and getting
> burned up by having to deal with the same discussions time and again
> and by feeling they're being "bullied" by someone in the Community.
> Some developers are  reaching a "tipping point". We need them to go
> out, take a breath and relax. But that doesn't excuse a behaviour of
> pushing individual's buttons and trying to cause as much havoc as
> possible.
>
> About "censorship", if our goal had been to "silence" someone or to
> prevent "dissent opinion", we would have banned emails and cleaned up
> archives a long time ago. The shear number of emails from the
> individual that has "cried foul" is evidence alone that he hasn't been
> silenced. A quick glance over the archives will easily show up
> divergent opinions.
>
> Finally, for all the conspiracy claims going around, there have been
> in the last years 2 former developers making a fuss about not being
> let in.
> As a ComRel member, that won't go into details regarding the specific
> cases, I can inform the community that there are valid reasons for
> them not to be let in and that most of their claims aren't accurate or
> true.
> If one goes around setting fires everywhere, burning all bridges and
> openly being hostile to everyone, it can't be a surprise if one is
> deemed "not wanted".
>
> Best regards,
> Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto
> Gentoo Developer
>
>

And I understand that frustration.  It frustrates me to see Gentoo go
through the same issues over and over again with nothing changing.  As I
pointed out earlier this is a self fulfilling problem or a viscous
cycle.  This that just happened with months of work not helping anyone,
leaving out things from ages ago about a ex-dev and his post, is a sad
situation for everyone.  Gentoo may have lost a future dev because of
the problem Gentoo doesn't have time to address which leads to it going
on again and again.  The more I think about this, the more frustrated I
get because it's not going to stop the cycle by doing the same things. 

Rich and myself had a exchange with me asking questions and trying to
get to some sort of solution but I don't hold any ill will against him
and I certainly don't mean it in a bad way.  Heck, I like a lot of
things Rich has done and have said as much.  He's one of the devs that
is active on -user.  To me, that is a really good thing because he is
helpful, very helpful at that.  He doesn't have to be active on -user at
all.  But he is.  I might add, it's one reason I reply to him because
eventually, we work it out. 

I don't care if it takes a while but I'd like to continue to work with
this to see if something, anything, can be done to help with this sort
of situation.  As I pointed out to Kent, if I can do nothing but plant a
seed that ends up getting Gentoo to a better place, I'm fine with that. 
If some idea I come up with helps, fine.  If it just leads to something
that will help, that's fine too.  But to act like this problem that has
went on for a long time is going to solve itself, obviously that isn't
going to work. 

As to ex-devs, Gentoo needs help.  Where possible, let people help.  If
that means them not being able to do so within Gentoo but they can
outside of it, fine.  I have to admit tho, I've never seen where posting
something that is honest is supposed to be a bad thing and be punished. 
The post that got William off of Github was maybe not ideal but at least
it wasn't ignoring the poor guy that put in all that effort for
basically nothing.  If I were active there and saw the post William
responded to, I would likely have offered pretty much the same
information. 

Now, is anyone interested in discussing a solution or does Gentoo plan
to do the same thing and expect different results? 

Dale

:-)  :-) 


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