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List:       gentoo-dev
Subject:    Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: oldnet scripts splitting out from OpenRC
From:       William Hubbs <williamh () gentoo ! org>
Date:       2013-04-25 3:32:56
Message-ID: 20130425033256.GA3900 () linux1
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On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 08:13:23PM -0700, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Wednesday 24 April 2013 13:23:23 William Hubbs wrote:
> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:58:21PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote:
> > > > On 24/04/13 12:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote:
> > > > > it has been suggested that gentoo's oldnet scripts be split out
> > > > > into their own package separate from OpenRC so that they can be
> > > > > developed independently. I am looking at doing this for OpenRC
> > > > > 0.12, which I hope to release soon.
> > > > >
> > > > > This means when you emerge or upgrade to openrc-0.12, the net.*
> > > > > scripts will no longer be included. I am going to call the separate
> > > > > package that includes these scripts gentoo-oldnet.
> > > > >
> > > > > My plan is  to write a newsitem when OpenRC 0.12 is released
> > > > > telling users this and that they will have to emerge gentoo-oldnet
> > > > > to get the gentoo networking scripts or turn on the newnet (maybe
> > > > > I'll change this to net) use flag to get OpenRC's network scripts
> > > > > installed and put ewarns in the ebuild if this use flag is turned
> > > > > off.
> > > > >
> > > > > I feel that a newsitem and ewarns in the OpenRC ebuild cover live
> > > > > systems well. In a nutshell, users should pay attention to their
> > > > > news items and ewarns.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the other hand, some are suggesting that I should add a runtime
> > > > > dependency to OpenRC so that it pulls in gentoo-oldnet. Since
> > > > > OpenRC doesn't need gentoo-oldnet in order to run, I feel like this
> > > > > would be abusing dependencies.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > Current users should be able to do a -uDN and still have their
> > > > existing systems work as-is.  Whether you do this via a static
> > > > dependency or one controlled by a use flag (and be sure use flag
> > > > defaults would have oldnet installed by default) is up to you.
> > >
> > >  The issue is that OpenRC does not have any kind of dependency on
> > >  gentoo-oldnet at all. There will be a separate loopback script in OpenRC
> > >  so it is possible to run OpenRC on a system without the oldnet or
> > >  newnet scripts. In fact, this is a completely valid configuration.
> > >
> > > OpenRC doesn't "link" to gentoo-oldnet in any way, so there is no
> > > dependency.
> > >
> > > The way I read the dev manual [1], a newsitem and postinst messages are
> > > the way to go for somethinglike this.
> >
> > it is reasonable to expect openrc updates to *not* break a system.  that
> > means
> > people shouldn't be required to read a news/postinst message to keep from
> > killing things.
> >
> >
> So my understanding is that WIlliam does not want to break peoples shit. He
> doesn't want to maintain oldnet anymore. Other people do. What he wants to
> do is move oldnet out of openrc. I think that means that:
> openrc will no longer contain oldnet.
> openrc ebuilds will need to depend on <something> to make networking work.
> A brief discussion with him in chat seems to imply that oldnet is still
> fine. So in Gentoo we could just set IUSE="+oldnet" or similar, and it
> would get pulled in.
 
 I'll be involved in maintaining oldnet, but there are others (mainly
 robbat2) who want to be able to release new versions of oldnet
 separately from OpenRC, and to look into porting it to systemd.

I don't have a problem with the IUSE="+oldnet" issue if no one else
does, it just seemed sort of backward to me, using a use flag to pull in
something that really isn't a dependency.

But this would mean we can forget about any virtuals.

William

> Someone may need to fix up the stages to work (I thought they relied on
> USE="-*" which would entail missing out on oldnet here.)

Yes, I was planning to get with Jorge before this hits stable and figure
out what needs to happen.

> 
> 
> 
> > even then, a default Gentoo system should have networking support
> > available by
> > default.  our manuals assume this, and people shouldn't have to install a
> > stage3 and then do `emerge gentoo-oldnet` just to have that happen.  so
> > keeping a dependency in openrc (perhaps initially hard, or behind
> > IUSE=+oldnet) makes sense.
> > -mike
> >
> 
> Yeah after discussing in chat, I don't think the intention was to 'get
> everyone off of oldnet' but simply to move it out of openrc and into
> dedicated packages with maintainers that care about it.
> 
> -A

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