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List:       gentoo-amd64
Subject:    Re: [gentoo-amd64] Keyboard Stops Working Under X
From:       Phil Turmel <philip () turmel ! org>
Date:       2012-11-17 23:21:01
Message-ID: 50A81BDD.1070505 () turmel ! org
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On 11/17/2012 02:17 PM, Frank Peters wrote:

[trim /]

> IMO, udev is the most twisted and unnecessary piece of cr** to have
> ever been foisted upon the Linux world.  It is apparently the brainchild
> of the Freedesktop project, who are always busily creating more bloated
> graphical extravaganzas in some misguided mission to outdo Microsoft.

I agree, mostly.  It certainly has caused my grief.

> I refuse to jump on that garish bandwagon.  I have *real* computing
> to accomplish.
> 
> For me, the appeal of Linux is that it allows the user to configure
> and customize his system to suit his personal preferences, however bizarre
> or unconventional those may be.  The job of the Linux developers, therefore,
> should be to maintain that state of openness and not to constrain
> the user to any particular methodology.  IOW, Linux is about *choice*
> and not about conformity.

I also agree with your philosophy here.  I'm not so sure that it applies
to your situation.

The kernel is the gold standard for backwards compatibility, as Linus
regularly squashes functional regressions.  Freedesktop does not agree,
and probably does't have the manpower anyways.  They develop new
features to work with current systems, and video driver developers
follow their lead.

> My choice is simple: absolutely no udev (or any equivalent).
> If others desire to have it, then that is their choice, but
> I should never be forced to follow along.

Well, you pointed out in your first mail that:

> My system is updated daily
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you have some sort of filter on your daily updates that magically
determines whether you'll like them?  If you don't want to change, don't
update.  :-)

You weren't forced to update your Xorg or nvidia drivers, after all.
You chose to do so probably because you like security fixes, other bug
fixes and new features.

Did you even try to reinstall the older versions of any of your suspect
packages?

> Hopefully, Gentoo has not lost this understanding and will strive
> to maintain the wisdom.

Gentoo doesn't control the software you are b**ching about, so I don't
know what you expect to happen here.

Again, I applaud your philosophical position, but I *like* being able to
unplug and replug keyboards and mice without worry.  I'm not inclined to
fork Xorg, so I've sucked it up and joined the udev/evdev world.  I'll
pick another hill to die on.

I used to hate initramfs boot sequences, too.  I was horrified when the
linux raid maintainer declared that new features were only going to be
supported in initramfs systems.  When some disk hot-swap features I
wanted pushed me that way, I didn't fork the kernel.  I learned how
early userspace worked and switched.  Now I like it.  You might find the
same happens to you when you try evdev.

HTH,

Phil

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