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List:       full-disclosure
Subject:    Re: [Full-Disclosure] Script Kiddies vs. Security Kiddies
From:       "Andy Cuff" <offthecuff () lineone ! net>
Date:       2004-01-30 23:26:49
Message-ID: 011701c3e788$8b020600$0100a8c0 () LANCASTER
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Hi,
It's been a long day and I don't normally bite but I will

Some talk about script kiddies in a derogative way, but still have to admit
that they are a threat. (ask Steve Gibson ;o)  I'd prefer to get on my
soapbox about those individuals on the other side of the fence in the
security world, those that are driven to their positions by the chance of
financial gain rather than the passion for the job. I hold them in far lower
regard than anyone else, even my mother in law. Whichever side of the fence
you sit on; black, white or grey, the passion for what you do should be held
in at least equal regard to how good you are at doing it.

respect the passion; security or script kiddies.

-andy
Talisker Security Tools Directory
http://www.securitywizardry.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ktabic" <hh@ktabic.co.uk>
To: <full-disclosure@lists.netsys.com>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Script Kiddies [OT]


> Well, I know you should feed the trolls, but anyway...
>
> On Fri, 2004-01-30 at 16:23, Uncle Scrotora Balzac wrote:
> > I love hearing security people talk about script kiddies. It's the
funniest
> > thing to see them walking around with their chests pushed out like
peacocks,
> >  as they scoff the silly little kiddy.
>
> Script Kiddie, usually used on this list to refer to a certain set of
> what could be termed as Blackhats. I sure that most Blackhats however,
> would be insulted by being included in the same group as Script Kiddies.
> >
> > Funny because 99.9 percent of the people using the term so loosely have
> > no idea how to *really* find vulnerabilities in systems, compromise,
> > gain control, hide their presence, then use it for whatever they want.
> > Hell, a significant percent of those "security
[engineers/professionals/consultants/researchers]"
> > (circle one) have trouble compiling exploits (if they even know where
> > to find them in the first place), much less figure out offsets, return
> > addresses, etc.. The same exploits those "kiddies" use!! What these
people
> > don't realize is that the "kiddies" they so affectionately refer to have
> > learned this practice by reading comments, headers, and cryptic help
> > messages in code and scripts. Not by completely out-of-touch and
wickedly
> > outdated texts like their CISSP study guides, vendor whitepapers, and
> > books by aging whitehat hackers. Irony.
>
> Well, from my experience, and time lurking on several IRC channels and a
> couple of Yahoo chatrooms, 'cause I'm bored and need entertaining, most
> Script Kiddies wouldn't know a compiler if it jumped up, bit them on the
> arse and shouted 'I'm a compiler! Compile a program with me!!' let alone
> know the theory behind a buffer overflow, or even do basic hexidecimal
> arthmetic. Sadly, all I have even seen is the trade of canned exploits,
> you know, the ready made executables.
> There probably are some advanced Script Kiddies out there, that might e
> able to take an exploit in source code form and make a working exploit,
> and I've even seen some modified exploits, that might have been the work
> of Script Kiddies, but I doubt it.
> You see, the reason a Script Kiddie is called a Script Kiddie, isn't
> because they can or can't write exploits, but rather they don't
> understand the basics of target selection, so run their exploits
> againist every single machine they can. Usually using a script. Hence
> SCRIPT Kiddie. The only reason the Script Kiddes are even considored a
> hazard on the 'Net is because of the number of machines they hit, not
> their technical ability, which, as I pointed out, is pretty much
> non-exsistant. And it always seems to be to build a botnet. Or a warez
> server. Maybe the ability to run a program and use and IRC client so you
> can control the botnet is technically skilled for you, but for most of
> the readers of this list, thats something they could do while rebooting
> the mail server, clearing three people computers of viruses, advising
> the non-IT geek on hardware, and showing the new member of staff how to
> log on and where Word is and persuading the boss to part with money for
> the next round of upgrades, while simutaneously reading Full-Disclosure
> and wondering why the hell they didn't decide on a careers as a sheep
> farmer in the Australian Outback.
> Those Blackhats I have talked to that I don't lump in with Script
> Kiddies, have always thought that being indescriminate in the target
> selection stage was a waste, and that a DDOS wasn't the aim.
>
>
> ktabic
> -- 
> www.ktabic.co.uk
> Many sysadmins won't give you the time of day.
> Thats what NTP is for.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html

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Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.netsys.com/full-disclosure-charter.html
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