[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

List:       freedesktop-xorg
Subject:    Re: Have to complain about building documentation
From:       "Joel Feiner" <jafeiner () gmail ! com>
Date:       2007-04-29 22:00:49
Message-ID: 78dd15b90704291500q77d09be1l298a39799d101e60 () mail ! gmail ! com
[Download RAW message or body]

[Attachment #2 (multipart/alternative)]


On 4/28/07, Eamon Walsh <efw@eamonwalsh.com> wrote:
>
> Joel Feiner wrote:
> > In that it is nearly impossible.  There was a discussion on this list
> > previously about the difficulties involved with SGML and being able to
> > actually read the documentation.  He was told that it's really easy and
> > it is automatically built, etc.  Except that it's not.  It took me a
> > while to figure out exactly which packages I need to have installed and
> > where to get xorg-docs to build.  It didn't give me any error messages,
> > it just wouldn't build the documentation.  It never said why.  When I
> > finally got it working, half the documents wouldn't build because they
> > have weird characters or something.  Who knows how to fix that.  That's
> > really awesome, guys.
>
> What are the errors?  Specifics, please.  You need the xmlto package on
> your system and its dependences.  Then it should just work.


The error is that character 65355 (or something very close to that) is not a
valid character.  I guess I could hunt through the source and find those
characters, but that just shouldn't be a problem.

I have xmlto installed and its dependencies, so that shouldn't be an issue.
I should add that I can build SOME of the docs, just not all of them.

I think the plan is not to use SGML any more, but rather to use DocBook
> XML.  Not too much different, but maybe that's what's causing the bad
> characters.
>
> There is a longstanding xorg bug #647 to convert all the old formats in
> the specs directory of xorg-docs to DocBook.
>
>
>
> >
> > In one of the recent messages, there was a link to a Wiki page that
> > described X and input events.  It mentioned a DESIGN.sgml document
> > inside the xserver tree.  Of course it's sgml, so that means it has to
> > be build.  Well, apparently there's no way to tell the xserver
> > ./configure script to build documentation.  There's no make option to
> > make it build that file.  So there's this sgml file lying around in the
> > tree that's practically useless to me, unless I know all the arcane
> > command line options to whatever program it is (Jade?) that converts
> > sgml to something useful.  So I cannot use this document, basically.
> > Wonderful.
>
> That file is in LinuxDoc, not DocBook.  Once it is converted to DocBook
> it could be placed in the xorg-docs under sgml/ddx.  I don't know what
> else is in the xserver doc directory.
>
> IMHO everything should be in xorg-docs, but according to the xorg-docs
> README the eventual plan is to move things back to doc/ directories in
> the other packages.
>
> >
> > This is a sorry state of things, guy.  Something needs to be done.  But,
> > not to complain in vain, I am going to offer to fix the documentation
> > problem if somebody can tell me how to make the sgml stuff work.  There
> > should be one or more of the following (in my uninformed, but
> > frustrated, opinion):
> > a) A script that will build documentation files.  So I could run
> > builddoc.sh somefile.sgml and as long as the sgml file belongs to the
> > xorg docs, then it will build it and produce a pdf or whatever.  No
> > muss, no fuss.
>
> You should be able to just run
> ./autogen.sh
> make sgml/ddx/foo.pdf


Doesn't work.

> b) A ./configure option to build the documentation that comes in
> > packages other than xorg-docs (maybe there already is?  I can't find
> it....)
>
> First those docs should be converted to DocBook.  However I think a
> quick Google search should turn up hardcopies of most things, including
> the DESIGN.sgml.


I shouldn't have to do this.  It should just *work* .  I think it's funny
that compiling millions of lines of C code works, but converting some
documentation is nearly impossible.  C'mon guys!

> c) All the errors need to be fixed so the documentation actually
> > builds.  And if there are errors, it shouldn't stop the whole build...it
> > should just skip that file.
>
> Again, what are the specific errors.




See above


> OR
> > d) At the very least, have a wiki page that explains how to make things
> > work they way they should.  Maybe I'm just not doing things right, but I
> > would have no way of knowing that because there's, ahem, no
> > documentation for building the documentation.
> >
> > Commentary is welcome.  I might just be an idiot and this is really
> > simple.  Then again, I'm the second or more person to have complained
> > about the documentation status on this list.  I imagine there must be
> > ten times as many out there who are frustrated and have given up, or not
> > even tried.  I know most of the devs don't have time to deal with
> > documentation niggles, which is why I'm offering to try to do some of
> > the work, if I could be pointed in the right direction.
> >
>
> Solving bug #647 is the big documentation hurdle, that bug has been open
> for years.
>
>
> --Eamon W.
>

[Attachment #5 (text/html)]

<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 4/28/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Eamon \
Walsh</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:efw@eamonwalsh.com">efw@eamonwalsh.com</a>&gt; \
wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Joel Feiner wrote:<br>&gt; \
In that it is nearly impossible.&nbsp;&nbsp;There was a discussion on this \
list<br>&gt; previously about the difficulties involved with SGML and being able \
to<br>&gt; actually read the documentation.&nbsp;&nbsp;He was told that it&#39;s \
really easy and <br>&gt; it is automatically built, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;Except that \
it&#39;s not.&nbsp;&nbsp;It took me a<br>&gt; while to figure out exactly which \
packages I need to have installed and<br>&gt; where to get xorg-docs to \
build.&nbsp;&nbsp;It didn&#39;t give me any error messages, <br>&gt; it just \
wouldn&#39;t build the documentation.&nbsp;&nbsp;It never said why.&nbsp;&nbsp;When \
I<br>&gt; finally got it working, half the documents wouldn&#39;t build because \
they<br>&gt; have weird characters or something.&nbsp;&nbsp;Who knows how to fix \
that.&nbsp;&nbsp;That&#39;s <br>&gt; really awesome, guys.<br><br>What are the \
errors?&nbsp;&nbsp;Specifics, please.&nbsp;&nbsp;You need the xmlto package \
on<br>your system and its dependences.&nbsp;&nbsp;Then it should just \
work.</blockquote><div><br>The error is that character 65355 (or something very close \
to that) is not a valid character.&nbsp; I guess I could hunt through the source and
find those characters, but that just shouldn&#39;t be a problem.<br>
<br>
I have xmlto installed and its dependencies, so that shouldn&#39;t be an
issue.&nbsp; I should add that I can build SOME of the docs, just not all of
them.&nbsp;</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid \
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I think the plan \
is not to use SGML any more, but rather to use DocBook<br> XML.&nbsp;&nbsp;Not too \
much different, but maybe that&#39;s what&#39;s causing the \
bad<br>characters.<br><br>There is a longstanding xorg bug #647 to convert all the \
old formats in<br>the specs directory of xorg-docs to DocBook.<br> \
<br><br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; In one of the recent messages, there was a link to a Wiki \
page that<br>&gt; described X and input events.&nbsp;&nbsp;It mentioned a DESIGN.sgml \
document<br>&gt; inside the xserver tree.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course it&#39;s sgml, so that \
means it has to <br>&gt; be build.&nbsp;&nbsp;Well, apparently there&#39;s no way to \
tell the xserver<br>&gt; ./configure script to build \
documentation.&nbsp;&nbsp;There&#39;s no make option to<br>&gt; make it build that \
file.&nbsp;&nbsp;So there&#39;s this sgml file lying around in the <br>&gt; tree \
that&#39;s practically useless to me, unless I know all the arcane<br>&gt; command \
line options to whatever program it is (Jade?) that converts<br>&gt; sgml to \
something useful.&nbsp;&nbsp;So I cannot use this document, basically. <br>&gt; \
Wonderful.<br><br>That file is in LinuxDoc, not DocBook.&nbsp;&nbsp;Once it is \
converted to DocBook<br>it could be placed in the xorg-docs under \
sgml/ddx.&nbsp;&nbsp;I don&#39;t know what<br>else is in the xserver doc \
directory.<br> <br>IMHO everything should be in xorg-docs, but according to the \
xorg-docs<br>README the eventual plan is to move things back to doc/ directories \
in<br>the other packages.<br><br>&gt;<br>&gt; This is a sorry state of things, \
guy.&nbsp;&nbsp;Something needs to be done.&nbsp;&nbsp;But, <br>&gt; not to complain \
in vain, I am going to offer to fix the documentation<br>&gt; problem if somebody can \
tell me how to make the sgml stuff work.&nbsp;&nbsp;There<br>&gt; should be one or \
more of the following (in my uninformed, but <br>&gt; frustrated, opinion):<br>&gt; \
a) A script that will build documentation files.&nbsp;&nbsp;So I could run<br>&gt; \
builddoc.sh somefile.sgml and as long as the sgml file belongs to the<br>&gt; xorg \
docs, then it will build it and produce a pdf or whatever.&nbsp;&nbsp;No <br>&gt; \
muss, no fuss.<br><br>You should be able to just run<br>./autogen.sh<br>make \
sgml/ddx/foo.pdf</blockquote><div><br>Doesn&#39;t work. <br></div><br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt \
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> &gt; b) A ./configure option to build the \
documentation that comes in<br>&gt; packages other than xorg-docs (maybe there \
already is?&nbsp;&nbsp;I can&#39;t find it....)<br><br>First those docs should be \
converted to DocBook.&nbsp;&nbsp;However I think a <br>quick Google search should \
turn up hardcopies of most things, including<br>the \
DESIGN.sgml.</blockquote><div><br>I shouldn&#39;t have to do this.&nbsp; It should \
just *work* .&nbsp; I think it&#39;s funny that compiling millions of lines of C code \
works, but converting some documentation is nearly impossible.&nbsp; C&#39;mon guys! \
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">&gt; c) All the errors need \
to be fixed so the documentation actually<br>&gt; builds.&nbsp;&nbsp;And if there are \
errors, it shouldn&#39;t stop the whole build...it <br>&gt; should just skip that \
file.<br><br>Again, what are the specific \
errors.</blockquote><div><br>&nbsp;</div><br><div>See \
above<br>&nbsp;</div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px \
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> &gt; \
OR<br>&gt; d) At the very least, have a wiki page that explains how to make \
things<br>&gt; work they way they should.&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe I&#39;m just not doing \
things right, but I<br>&gt; would have no way of knowing that because there&#39;s, \
ahem, no <br>&gt; documentation for building the documentation.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; \
Commentary is welcome.&nbsp;&nbsp;I might just be an idiot and this is really<br>&gt; \
simple.&nbsp;&nbsp;Then again, I&#39;m the second or more person to have \
complained<br> &gt; about the documentation status on this list.&nbsp;&nbsp;I imagine \
there must be<br>&gt; ten times as many out there who are frustrated and have given \
up, or not<br>&gt; even tried.&nbsp;&nbsp;I know most of the devs don&#39;t have time \
to deal with <br>&gt; documentation niggles, which is why I&#39;m offering to try to \
do some of<br>&gt; the work, if I could be pointed in the right \
direction.<br>&gt;<br><br>Solving bug #647 is the big documentation hurdle, that bug \
has been open <br>for years.<br><br><br>--Eamon W.<br></blockquote></div><br>



_______________________________________________
xorg mailing list
xorg@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg

[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread] 

Configure | About | News | Add a list | Sponsored by KoreLogic