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List: freedesktop-compiz
Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request
From: "Vadim Peretokin" <vperetokin () gmail ! com>
Date: 2007-10-23 15:55:44
Message-ID: 6995ca080710230855r6dcee1at3f67c967006d369d () mail ! gmail ! com
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Ahh. This sounds grand then, I hope people will take this idea up.
On 10/23/07, Mark McCarron <markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's why I selected a black void and standard meshes as a basic design.
> When it comes to cross-OS transitions, these items can be transferred from
> one machine to another. Open standards will allow for cross-communication
> allowing users to observe each other. The only difference between using
> Compiz/X, or another OS will be the amount that you will be required to
> download.
>
> As an example, a Compiz/X user connecting to another Compiz/X user will be
> able to use the network transparency of the host it is connecting to. This
> will allow them to observe the remote desktop. The connecting client will
> upload an avatar to the host to represent that connection, or for security
> reasons select a pre-defined avatar. From this point, it is just a matter
> of exchanging state information to update the avatars positions, actions,
> etc.
>
> Now lets say we have a Windows machine connecting to a Compiz/X host. At
> present, using the network transparency of X is not an option. A possible
> solution is to transfer the contents to the Windows client and have them
> render it locally. As with the above solution, its then a matter of
> exchanging state information for the avatars.
>
> Consider this a short-term solution for incompatible systems and
> low-bandwidth scenarios. In the longer term, a unified protocol would be
> used to bridge Compiz/X with Terminal Services providing an open standard
> for network transparency. The natural evolution from this point, will be a
> form of network transparency for the web.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:54:41 -0400
> From: vperetokin@gmail.com
> To: markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request
>
> Compiz' development is also much more accelerated than Croquet's, from
> what it seems like.
>
> But, Croquet runs on all platforms, whereas Compiz only on X, which as far
> as I know is Linux only. That limits our scope a lot (unless Compiz can run
> inside a VM?).
>
> On 10/22/07, *Mark McCarron* <markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Personally, I feel that Croquet would be overkill. Its a good platform
> for developers, or even companies with specific needs, but a 3D desktop does
> not require all the features of Croquet. Croquet is a full multi-purpose 3D
> engine, a 3D desktop needs to be light-weight, responsive and provide only
> the features that are absolutely required. The ability to display, arrange
> and redirect input to objects is all that is required in addition to being
> able to navigate in the environment.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> > Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:07:16 +0200
> > From: rastamasta@gmx.de
> > To: compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request
> >
> > Am Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400
> > schrieb "Vadim Peretokin" < vperetokin@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > I had a similar idea, but I think they said it wasn't too feasible
> > > much on the forums.
> > >
> > > Why do you capitalize "window" though?
> > >
> > > I really like your business applications for this - they really do
> > > sound very good. This'll be excellent.
> > >
> > i guess what you want is this
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opencroquet . this approach is platform
> > independent, which is normally what you want to have for
> > collaborative tools.
> > it's probably better to work on opencroquet if you like the idea than
> > to start from scratch - see the history and the companies
> > involved with it
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> > > On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron < markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good questions. I have a few suggestions that may help, I'm sure
> > > > the Compiz developers will be able to structure the controls much
> > > > better. So, take this as a basis from which to begin.
> > > >
> > > > There would be two basic modes, the first mode would be free space,
> > > > that is, your mouse guides you through the desktop space. Upon
> > > > selecting a window, you would enter the second mode, the mouse
> > > > controls would now act upon the selected Window. A simple
> > > > left-click in free space would return the user to the first mode.
> > > >
> > > > I would expect the user to be able walk around the environment
> > > > similar to any FPS. Movement can either be provided by a mouse
> > > > click providing acceleration, or via keyboard controls again
> > > > similar to any FPS.
> > > >
> > > > As windows are objects, perhaps they should have a small control on
> > > > the border of the windows that can be manipulated by the mouse.
> > > > This control would allow the user to alter each of dimensions
> > > > independently. A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work well.
> > > > This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and scaling of
> > > > the object.
> > > >
> > > > A quick switch utility is something that is definitely required.
> > > > Whilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop must provide a
> > > > productive environment. I like the wall utility too, I find it
> > > > very handy. I would expect this to look at the space from above
> > > > and provide the user with a sense of where each window is located
> > > > as well as a bitmap preview.
> > > >
> > > > There should also be support for the direct loading and rendering of
> > > > meshes. This is both for decoration and as a tool for work
> > > > environments. Collaborative design work, even across multiple
> > > > vendors, would become very easy. Architects would be able to work
> > > > on designs with real-time client input, car designers would be able
> > > > to work as team, etc. I'm not suggesting a full editing
> > > > environment, just a basic viewer that supports major formats.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700
> > > > From: srhlefty@gmail.com
> > > > To: markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com; compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request
> > > >
> > > > This is an interesting idea. How would the user control how the
> > > > windows move in the depth dimension? Would the user actually
> > > > "walk" around such a space? With such a large space, how would one
> > > > get to a particular window quickly, i.e. is there still a switcher?
> > > >
> > > > A 2D slice of such a space reminds me a lot of the current "Wall"
> > > > plugin that compiz has, and is one of my favorites.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/18/07, *Mark McCarron* < markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Guys,
> > > >
> > > > I have been thinking of a new style of interface that could be
> > > > added to Compiz. Essentially, rather than having a desktop, the
> > > > user would be presented with a space in which to work. This space
> > > > would be several meters wide in real terms and the user could
> > > > navigate the space in a similar fashion to a 3D game.
> > > >
> > > > Windows could be grabbed and thrown throughout the space, providing
> > > > a very large workspace. This would also allow the user to
> > > > physically arrange Windows in the space according to particular
> > > > tasks or functions. A simple double-click of a Window would cause
> > > > it to snap into full 2D view were the application can be worked
> > > > upon.
> > > >
> > > > The concept of multiple desktops, could be implemented as multiple
> > > > spaces. Given the network transparency of X, it would also allow
> > > > for the concept of a public space. A public space would be a
> > > > desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet. This has
> > > > both business and personal applications. In terms of business, it
> > > > can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc. In terms of
> > > > personal use, it would open a new area to social networking,
> > > > desktop surfing. End users could store images, videos and a range
> > > > of interactive items that members of the public can view or
> > > > download.
> > > >
> > > > I realise that this can prove to be a bandwidth hog, but like
> > > > everything in computer world, this will only improve with time and
> > > > become less of an issue.
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > The next generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live
> > > > Hotmail<http://www.newhotmail.co.uk/>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > compiz mailing list
> > > > compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > > Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local
> > > > knowledge with BackOfMyHand.com < http://www.backofmyhand.com>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > compiz mailing list
> > > > compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > > > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz
> > > >
> > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > compiz mailing list
> > compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz
>
> ------------------------------
> Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with
> BackOfMyHand.com <http://www.backofmyhand.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> compiz mailing list
> compiz@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with
> BackOfMyHand.com <http://www.backofmyhand.com>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
Ahh. This sounds grand then, I hope people will take this idea up.<br><br><div><span \
class="gmail_quote">On 10/23/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Mark McCarron</b> <<a \
href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com">markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com </a>> \
wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, \
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>That's why I selected a black void and standard meshes as a basic \
design. When it comes to cross-OS transitions, these items can be transferred \
from one machine to another. Open standards will allow for cross-communication \
allowing users to observe each other. The only difference between using \
Compiz/X, or another OS will be the amount that you will be required to download. \
<br> <br>
As an example, a Compiz/X user connecting to another Compiz/X user will be able to \
use the network transparency of the host it is connecting to. This will allow \
them to observe the remote desktop. The connecting client will upload an avatar \
to the host to represent that connection, or for security reasons select a \
pre-defined avatar. From this point, it is just a matter of exchanging state \
information to update the avatars positions, actions, etc. <br>
<br>
Now lets say we have a Windows machine connecting to a Compiz/X host. At \
present, using the network transparency of X is not an option. A possible \
solution is to transfer the contents to the Windows client and have them render it \
locally. As with the above solution, its then a matter of exchanging \
state information for the avatars. <br>
<br>
Consider this a short-term solution for incompatible systems and low-bandwidth \
scenarios. In the longer term, a unified protocol would be used to bridge \
Compiz/X with Terminal Services providing an open standard for network \
transparency. The natural evolution from this point, will be a form of network \
transparency for the web. <br><br><br><br><br>
<blockquote>
<hr>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:54:41 -0400<br>From: <a href="mailto:vperetokin@gmail.com" \
target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vperetokin@gmail.com</a><span \
class="q"><br>To: <a href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" \
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> \
markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com</a><br></span><div><span class="e" \
id="q_115cd3fc4c74ace0_2">Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<br><br>Compiz' \
development is also much more accelerated than Croquet's, from what it seems \
like. <br><br>But, Croquet runs on all platforms, whereas Compiz only on X, which as \
far as I know is Linux only. That limits our scope a lot (unless Compiz can run \
inside a VM?). <br><br> <div><span>On 10/22/07, <b>Mark McCarron</b> <<a \
href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com</a>> \
wrote:</span> <blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Personally, I feel that Croquet would be overkill. Its a good platform for \
developers, or even companies with specific needs, but a 3D desktop does not require \
all the features of Croquet. Croquet is a full multi-purpose 3D engine, a 3D \
desktop needs to be light-weight, responsive and provide only the features that \
are absolutely required. The ability to display, arrange and redirect input to \
objects is all that is required in addition to being able to navigate in the \
environment. <br><br><br><br>
<hr>
> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:07:16 +0200<br>> From: <a \
href="mailto:rastamasta@gmx.de" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">rastamasta@gmx.de</a><br>> To: <a \
href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> compiz@lists.freedesktop.org</a>
<div><span><br>> Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<br>> <br>> Am Fri, 19 \
Oct 2007 08:02:47 -0400<br>> schrieb "Vadim Peretokin" < <a \
href="mailto:vperetokin@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> vperetokin@gmail.com</a>>:<br>> \
<br>> > I had a similar idea, but I think they said it wasn't too feasible \
<br>> > much on the forums.<br>> > <br>> > Why do you capitalize \
"window" though? <br>> > <br>> > I really like your business \
applications for this - they really do<br>> > sound very good. This'll be \
excellent. <br>> > <br>> i guess what you want is this<br>> <a \
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opencroquet" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opencroquet \
</a>. this approach is platform<br>> independent, which is normally what you want \
to have for<br>> collaborative tools.<br>> it's probably better to work on \
opencroquet if you like the idea than <br>> to start from scratch - see the \
history and the companies <br>> involved with it<br>> <br>> cheers<br>> \
<br>> <br>> > On 10/19/07, Mark McCarron <<a \
href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com</a>> \
wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > Good questions. I have a few suggestions \
that may help, I'm sure<br>> > > the Compiz developers will be able to \
structure the controls much <br>> > > better. So, take this as a basis from \
which to begin.<br>> > ><br>> > > There would be two basic modes, \
the first mode would be free space,<br>> > > that is, your mouse guides you \
through the desktop space. Upon <br>> > > selecting a window, you would \
enter the second mode, the mouse<br>> > > controls would now act upon the \
selected Window. A simple<br>> > > left-click in free space would return the \
user to the first mode. <br>> > ><br>> > > I would expect the user \
to be able walk around the environment<br>> > > similar to any FPS. Movement \
can either be provided by a mouse<br>> > > click providing acceleration, or \
via keyboard controls again <br>> > > similar to any FPS.<br>> > \
><br>> > > As windows are objects, perhaps they should have a small \
control on<br>> > > the border of the windows that can be manipulated by the \
mouse. <br>> > > This control would allow the user to alter each of \
dimensions<br>> > > independently. A small clickable X,Y,Z object would work \
well.<br>> > > This control could be expanded to allow for rotation and \
scaling of <br>> > > the object.<br>> > ><br>> > > A \
quick switch utility is something that is definitely required.<br>> > > \
Whilst the freedom aspect is good, the desktop must provide a<br>> > > \
productive environment. I like the wall utility too, I find it <br>> > > \
very handy. I would expect this to look at the space from above<br>> > > and \
provide the user with a sense of where each window is located<br>> > > as \
well as a bitmap preview.<br>> > > <br>> > > There should also be \
support for the direct loading and rendering of<br>> > > meshes. This is \
both for decoration and as a tool for work<br>> > > environments. \
Collaborative design work, even across multiple <br>> > > vendors, would \
become very easy. Architects would be able to work<br>> > > on designs with \
real-time client input, car designers would be able<br>> > > to work as \
team, etc. I'm not suggesting a full editing <br>> > > environment, \
just a basic viewer that supports major formats.<br>> > ><br>> > \
><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> \
> ><br>> > > ------------------------------ <br>> > > Date: \
Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:33:58 -0700<br>> > > From: <a \
href="mailto:srhlefty@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">srhlefty@gmail.com</a><br>> > > To: \
<a href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com</a>; <a \
href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> compiz@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br>> > \
> Subject: Re: [compiz] Feature Request<br>> > ><br>> > > This \
is an interesting idea. How would the user control how the<br>> > > windows \
move in the depth dimension? Would the user actually <br>> > > \
"walk" around such a space? With such a large space, how would one<br>> \
> > get to a particular window quickly, i.e. is there still a switcher?<br>> \
> ><br>> > > A 2D slice of such a space reminds me a lot of the \
current "Wall" <br>> > > plugin that compiz has, and is one of my \
favorites.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > On \
10/18/07, *Mark McCarron* <<a href="mailto:markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com" \
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> \
markmccarron_itt@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > ><br>> > > Hi \
Guys,<br>> > ><br>> > > I have been thinking of a new style of \
interface that could be<br>> > > added to Compiz. Essentially, rather than \
having a desktop, the <br>> > > user would be presented with a space in \
which to work. This space<br>> > > would be several meters wide in real \
terms and the user could<br>> > > navigate the space in a similar fashion to \
a 3D game. <br>> > ><br>> > > Windows could be grabbed and thrown \
throughout the space, providing<br>> > > a very large workspace. This would \
also allow the user to<br>> > > physically arrange Windows in the space \
according to particular <br>> > > tasks or functions. A simple double-click \
of a Window would cause<br>> > > it to snap into full 2D view were the \
application can be worked<br>> > > upon.<br>> > ><br>> > > \
The concept of multiple desktops, could be implemented as multiple <br>> > \
> spaces. Given the network transparency of X, it would also allow<br>> > \
> for the concept of a public space. A public space would be a<br>> > > \
desktop that is shared either across a LAN or Internet. This has <br>> > > \
both business and personal applications. In terms of business, it<br>> > > \
can be used for presentations, reviewing designs, etc. In terms of<br>> > > \
personal use, it would open a new area to social networking, <br>> > > \
desktop surfing. End users could store images, videos and a range<br>> > > \
of interactive items that members of the public can view or<br>> > > \
download.<br>> > ><br>> > > I realise that this can prove to be a \
bandwidth hog, but like <br>> > > everything in computer world, this will \
only improve with time and<br>> > > become less of an issue.<br>> > \
><br>> > > ------------------------------<br>> > > The next \
generation of MSN Hotmail has arrived - Windows Live <br>> > > \
Hotmail<<a href="http://www.newhotmail.co.uk/" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.newhotmail.co.uk/</a>><br>> \
> ><br>> > > _______________________________________________ <br>> \
> > compiz mailing list<br>> > > <a \
href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">compiz@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br>> > \
> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz" target="_blank" \
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz</a><br>> \
> ><br>> > > <br>> > ><br>> > > \
------------------------------<br>> > > Do you know a place like the back of \
your hand? Share local<br>> > > knowledge with BackOfMyHand.com <<a \
href="http://www.backofmyhand.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> http://www.backofmyhand.com</a>><br>> \
> ><br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> \
> > compiz mailing list<br>> > > <a \
href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> compiz@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br>> > \
> <a href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz" target="_blank" \
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz \
</a><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> \
_______________________________________________<br>> compiz mailing list<br>> \
<a href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> compiz@lists.freedesktop.org</a><br>> <a \
href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz" target="_blank" \
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz \
</a><br><br></span></div>
<hr>
<span>Do you know a place like the back of your hand? Share local knowledge with <a \
href="http://www.backofmyhand.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">BackOfMyHand.com</a></span></div> \
<br>_______________________________________________<br>compiz mailing list<br><a \
href="mailto:compiz@lists.freedesktop.org" target="_blank" onclick="return \
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">compiz@lists.freedesktop.org </a><br><a \
href="http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz" target="_blank" \
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/compiz</a><br><br></blockquote></div>
<br></span></div></blockquote><br><hr><span class="q">Do you know a place like the \
back of your hand? Share local knowledge with <a href="http://www.backofmyhand.com" \
target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> \
BackOfMyHand.com</a></span></div> </blockquote></div><br>
_______________________________________________
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