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List: freebsd-i18n
Subject: IBM LGPL Unicode charsets and LGPL *_*.utf8 locales
From: "Michael C . Wu" <keichii () iteration ! net>
Date: 2001-01-10 19:31:20
[Download RAW message or body]
[Boris: I don't have Konstantin's email at hand,
do you mind doing a [fwd]? ]
Hello guys,
Well, I just found that IBM released UTF8 locales and Unicode charmaps.
I know that ICONV has been held up by unicode.org license issues.
See the following urls
http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/index.html
http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/locale/
I discussed this with David O'Brien and we both agree that
this can be imported into src/sys/gnu and src/contrib, respectively.
The big problem is that we do not have localedef, but we can
resolve that by importing the NetBSD one, or even the linux one.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
> keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net |
> http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. |
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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:22:57 +0600 (ALMT)
From: Boris Popov <bp@butya.kz>
To: "Michael C . Wu" <keichii@peorth.iteration.net>
Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org,
Konstantin Chuguev <Konstantin.Chuguev@dante.org.uk>
Subject: Re: IBM LGPL Unicode charsets and LGPL *_*.utf8 locales
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Michael C . Wu wrote:
> Well, I just found that IBM released UTF8 locales and Unicode charmaps.
> I know that ICONV has been held up by unicode.org license issues.
This is no longer an issue - few days ago I've received the
following reply from Unicode:
--------------------
From: "Magda Danish (Unicode)" <v-magdad@microsoft.com>
To: 'Boris Popov' <bp@butya.kz>
Subject: RE: Copyright question
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:58:38 -0800
Dear Mr. Popov,
"Permission is hereby granted by The Unicode Consortium to the FreeBSD
project to use the Unicode tables files for the purpose and in the context
described in the e-mail below under the following terms and conditions:
# Those files are provided as-is by Unicode, Inc. (The Unicode Consortium).
# No claims are made as to fitness for any particular purpose. No
# warranties of any kind are expressed or implied. The recipient
# agrees to determine applicability of information provided. If the
# files have been provided on optical media by Unicode, Inc., the sole
# remedy for any claim will be exchange of defective media within 90
# days of receipt.
#
# Unicode, Inc. hereby grants the right to freely use the information
# supplied in these files in the creation of products supporting the
# Unicode Standard, and to make copies of these files in any form for
# internal or external distribution as long as this notice remains
# attached.
-------------------
Currently I'm negotiating details of the import with Konstantin.
>
> See the following urls
>
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/index.html
> http://oss.software.ibm.com/developer/opensource/locale/
I'd like the number of *.cpp files in the icu library :)
--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/
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Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:44:10 +0800
From: Clive Lin <clive@FreeBSD.org>
To: FUJISHIMA Satsuki <sf@FreeBSD.org>
Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/ftp/wget Makefile pkg-plist ports/ftp/wget/files \
patch-ac
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On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 06:03:14AM +0900, FUJISHIMA Satsuki wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:17:57 +0800,
> Clive Lin wrote:
> > > o supress installing zh_TW.BIG5.po. it actually does nothing and seems
> > > integrated with wget distribution.
> > All I want to say is,
> > this is the Right Thing (tm), thank you.
> >
> > Since GNU doesn't accept this po file, neither we do.
>
> wget-1.6 has share/locale/zh/LC_MESSAGES/wget.mo. I think
> wget/files/zh_TW.Big5.po has been integrated into GNU `official'
> distribution, so we need not to keep it in ports tree. Is this
> correct?
<ot>
Yeah, but this might abandon people in mainland China who use wget.
There're at least 2 zh locales, zh_CN.EUC and zh_TW.Big5.
Put a big5 .mo in zh/ directory is not good for FreeBSD, though.
I've seen some progress or proposal in glibc that would eliminate all zh_*
and integrate into a single zh locale. Some information like encoding name
would be retrived via nl_langinfo() or so.
This is not all Linuxism, but they just leaves *BSD behind. sigh.
</ot>
> I don't have Chinese-readable environment for now. (but should do. :-)
>
--
/me pokes itojun
/me pokes keichii
/me I'm not a libc hacker.
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 22:02:31 -0600
From: "Michael C . Wu" <keichii@iteration.net>
To: Clive Lin <clive@FreeBSD.org>
Cc: FUJISHIMA Satsuki <sf@FreeBSD.org>, i18n@FreeBSD.org,
ports@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/ftp/wget Makefile pkg-plist ports/ftp/wget/files \
patch-ac
Message-ID: <20010114220231.A53699@peorth.iteration.net>
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On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 11:44:10AM +0800, Clive Lin scribbled:
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2001 at 06:03:14AM +0900, FUJISHIMA Satsuki wrote:
> > At Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:17:57 +0800,
> > Clive Lin wrote:
> > > > o supress installing zh_TW.BIG5.po. it actually does nothing and seems
> > > > integrated with wget distribution.
> > > All I want to say is,
> > > this is the Right Thing (tm), thank you.
> > >
> > > Since GNU doesn't accept this po file, neither we do.
> >
> > wget-1.6 has share/locale/zh/LC_MESSAGES/wget.mo. I think
> > wget/files/zh_TW.Big5.po has been integrated into GNU `official'
> > distribution, so we need not to keep it in ports tree. Is this
> > correct?
> <ot>
> Yeah, but this might abandon people in mainland China who use wget.
> There're at least 2 zh locales, zh_CN.EUC and zh_TW.Big5.
>
> Put a big5 .mo in zh/ directory is not good for FreeBSD, though.
>
> I've seen some progress or proposal in glibc that would eliminate all zh_*
> and integrate into a single zh locale. Some information like encoding name
> would be retrived via nl_langinfo() or so.
The glibc people are smoking 99.99995% medical grade crack straight from
the storage safes of Merck Pharmaceutials Inc.
I think Clive is capable of deciding the cleaniest way of doing this. :)
> This is not all Linuxism, but they just leaves *BSD behind. sigh.
> </ot>
> > I don't have Chinese-readable environment for now. (but should do. :-)
As to nl_langinfo() stuff, I have work in progress.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
> keichii@peorth.iteration.net | keichii@bsdconspiracy.net |
> http://peorth.iteration.net/~keichii | Yes, BSD is a conspiracy. |
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:44:41 +0300 (MSK)
From: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" <ilmar@ints.ru>
To: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org
Subject: where should go catalog translation for tcsh
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I made russian translation of message catalog of tcsh. Where should i send
it - here or to the tcsh authors?
PS. And is there any tool, that helps to makes some sources to use
catalogs? Something like xstr(1), but more usefull?
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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:47 +0200
From: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@ark.cris.net>
To: "Ilmar S. Habibulin" <ilmar@ints.ru>
Cc: freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, obrien@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: where should go catalog translation for tcsh
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hi,
As I recall corectly -- you need to submit your files to maintainer
christos@zoulas.com (Christos Zoulas). And it'll be imported on
next import.
On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 07:44:41AM +0300, Ilmar S. Habibulin wrote:
>
> I made russian translation of message catalog of tcsh. Where should i send
> it - here or to the tcsh authors?
>
> PS. And is there any tool, that helps to makes some sources to use
> catalogs? Something like xstr(1), but more usefull?
>
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-i18n" in the body of the message
--
/* Alexey Zelkin && phantom@cris.net */
/* Tavric National University && phantom@FreeBSD.org */
/* Sysadmin/Developer && phantom@sms.umc.com.ua */
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(envelope-from phantom)
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:18:11 +0200
From: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@FreeBSD.org.ua>
To: i18n@FreeBSD.org
Cc: ache@FreeBSD.org, bde@FreeBSD.org
Subject: call for review: LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY} support for libc
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hi,
I have wrote support for libc's locale for two additional locale
categories: LC_NUMERIC and LC_MONETARY. (LC_MESSAGES is not yet
finished) in order to make FreeBSD's locale support more complete.
As you can see from output of test program (source in test/tst.c)
lconv structure now correctly fills after execution of setlocale()
and ready to use by functions which need this one. I don't have
any applications which actualy use lconv structure for numeric/monetary
formating. Therefore any comments on way how they're handling are welcome!
Attached archive contains:
libc/ -- new files and patches for libc/locale files.
share/ -- sources of /usr/share/locale/$lang/LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY}. Currently
I have included only en_US.ISO_8859-1 and ru_RU.KOI8-R examples.
test/ -- small test program
Once again -- comments are welcome!
--
/* Alexey Zelkin && phantom@cris.net */
/* Tavric National University && phantom@crimea.edu */
/* http://www.ccssu.crimea.ua/~phantom && phantom@FreeBSD.org */
["newlocale.tgz" (application/x-tar-gz)]
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:48:25 +0300
From: =?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
To: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@FreeBSD.org.ua>
Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.org, bde@FreeBSD.org
Subject: Re: call for review: LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY} support for libc
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On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 17:18:11 +0200, Alexey Zelkin wrote:
> I have wrote support for libc's locale for two additional locale
> categories: LC_NUMERIC and LC_MONETARY. (LC_MESSAGES is not yet
> finished) in order to make FreeBSD's locale support more complete.
Looks good (but I not actually test it).
1) What happens in your variant when some monetary/numeric locale data is
missing? Currently we don't have all locales monetary/numeric ready, so
LC_ALL may fails, breaking compatibility.
2) About Russian monetary: I think thousand/decimal must be the same as
for digits - there is no difference between those types of digits. And I
think that Russian "rub." is better then "rub", point here indicates
abbreviation.
--
Andrey A. Chernov
http://ache.pp.ru/
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:44:01 +0300
From: Evgeny Dolgopiat <evg_dolgop@beep.ru>
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To: "Michael C . Wu" <keichii@peorth.iteration.net>
Cc: freebsd-i18n@freebsd.org
Subject: Some questions about localization.
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Hello,
I have some questions about l18n of standart utilities: cp, rm and
etc.:
1. What do you think about quantity of arrays for local messages?
a) one - char** messages:
fprintf(stderr, "%s", messages[0]);
fprintf(stdin, "%s", messages[1]);
warn("%s", messages[2]);
b) two - char** error_messages, info_messages:
fprintf(stderr, "%s", error_messages[0]);
fprintf(stdin, "%s", messages[0]);
warn("%s", messages[1]);
c) three - char** error_messages, warning_messages, info_messages:
fprintf(stderr, "%s", error_messages[0]);
fprintf(stdin, "%s", messages[0]);
warn("%s", warning_messages[0]);
d) more, more, more ...
2) What about l18n this part of code:
/*******/
#define YESNO "(y / n)";
printf("Input your choice %s: " YESNO);
answer = getchar();
if( answer == 'y' || answer == 'Y'){
...
}
else{
...
}
/**********/
a) First method:
/*******/
#define YESNO "(y / n)";
printf("%s %s: " messages[0], YESNO);
answer = getchar();
if( answer == 'y' || answer == 'Y'){
...
}
else{
...
}
/**********/
b) Second method:
/*******/
#define YESNO messages[1];
printf("%s %s: " messages[0], messages[1]);
scanf("%s", answer);
if( ! strcmp(answer, messages[2]) || ! strncmp(answer, messages[3])){
...
}
else{
...
}
/**********/
c) Anything else?
3) Is any common rules for l18n? For example about name of file with
messages, sequence order of messages in file (alphbetical list, order
in src, ...) and a kind of.
Best regards,
Evgeny mailto:evg_dolgop@beep.ru
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:05:53 +0200
From: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@ark.cris.net>
To: =?koi8-r?B?4c7E0sXKIP7F0s7P1w==?= <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: call for review: LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY} support for libc
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hi,
On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:48:25AM +0300, Андрей Чернов wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2001 at 17:18:11 +0200, Alexey Zelkin wrote:
> > I have wrote support for libc's locale for two additional locale
> > categories: LC_NUMERIC and LC_MONETARY. (LC_MESSAGES is not yet
> > finished) in order to make FreeBSD's locale support more complete.
>
> Looks good (but I not actually test it).
>
> 1) What happens in your variant when some monetary/numeric locale data is
> missing? Currently we don't have all locales monetary/numeric ready, so
> LC_ALL may fails, breaking compatibility.
In case of missing LC_MONETARY or LC_NUMERIC for some locales -- localeconv()
just will be filled with default (C locale) values.
> 2) About Russian monetary: I think thousand/decimal must be the same as
> for digits - there is no difference between those types of digits. And I
> think that Russian "rub." is better then "rub", point here indicates
> abbreviation.
I have used information from locale definitions taken from
ftp://dkuug.dk/i18n/WG15-collection. As I could understand it's maintained
and was used as source for glibc's locale definitions.
--
/* Alexey Zelkin && phantom@cris.net */
/* Tavric National University && phantom@FreeBSD.org */
/* Sysadmin/Developer && phantom@sms.umc.com.ua */
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:10:56 +0300
From: "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
To: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@ark.cris.net>
Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: call for review: LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY} support for libc
Message-ID: <20010125141055.A53703@nagual.pp.ru>
References: <20010122171811.A65663@phantom.cris.net> \
<20010124024825.A29687@nagual.pp.ru> \
<20010125130553.A60383@ark.cris.net>
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On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 13:05:53 +0200, Alexey Zelkin wrote:
> In case of missing LC_MONETARY or LC_NUMERIC for some locales -- localeconv()
> just will be filled with default (C locale) values.
Ok.
> > 2) About Russian monetary: I think thousand/decimal must be the same as
> > for digits - there is no difference between those types of digits. And I
> > think that Russian "rub." is better then "rub", point here indicates
> > abbreviation.
>
> I have used information from locale definitions taken from
> ftp://dkuug.dk/i18n/WG15-collection. As I could understand it's maintained
> and was used as source for glibc's locale definitions.
Please contact Keld Simonsen <keld@dkuug.dk> to fix this. Some time ago I
already ask him to fix another part (month/weekday names area) and he did
it.
--
Andrey A. Chernov
http://ache.pp.ru/
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:27:31 +0300
From: "Andrey A. Chernov" <ache@nagual.pp.ru>
To: Alexey Zelkin <phantom@ark.cris.net>
Cc: i18n@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: call for review: LC_{NUMERIC,MONETARY} support for libc
Message-ID: <20010125142730.A53976@nagual.pp.ru>
References: <20010122171811.A65663@phantom.cris.net> \
<20010124024825.A29687@nagual.pp.ru> \
<20010125130553.A60383@ark.cris.net>
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On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 13:05:53 +0200, Alexey Zelkin wrote:
> > Looks good (but I not actually test it).
BTW, not about functionality, but about style: I doubt that we need so
many small header files just to pick one-two function prototypes.
--
Andrey A. Chernov
http://ache.pp.ru/
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From: "Alexander Voropay" <a.voropay@globalone.ru>
To: <freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: Some questions about localization.
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:52:00 +0300
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Evgeny Dolgopiat <evg_dolgop@beep.ru> wrote:
> I have some questions about l18n of standart utilities: cp, rm and
>
> 1. What do you think about quantity of arrays for local messages?
> 3) Is any common rules for l18n? For example about name of file with
> messages, sequence order of messages in file (alphbetical list, order
> in src, ...) and a kind of.
The "localized messages" is subject of NLS subsystem, where
NLS (message catalog mangetment system) is a part of whole I18N
system environment.
As it is known, in the *NIX world there are two main realizations of NLS :
1) X/Open XPG with catopen() [mostly obsoleted now]
2) SUN XView with gettext() / textdomain()
It is recommended to use GNUgettext for all new GPL-ed projects
for messages output. Just use libgettext in your proggies.
New autoconf/automake utilities knows this library well, too.
P.S. If you can read Russian, you could find this my page interesting :
http://www.sensi.org/~alec/locale/locale_n.html
--
-=AV=-
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Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:56:12 +0300
From: "Valeriy E. Ushakov" <uwe@ptc.spbu.ru>
To: freebsd-i18n@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Some questions about localization.
Message-ID: <20010127175611.A13006@snark.ptc.spbu.ru>
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"Alexander Voropay" on Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 16:52:00
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On Sat, Jan 27, 2001 at 16:52:00 +0300, Alexander Voropay wrote:
> It is recommended to use GNUgettext for all new GPL-ed projects for
> messages output.
This is, obviously, not quite appropriate for BSD code base, is it?
PS: I have vague recollections about some utility that assisted in
maintaing catgets(3) by building catalogs from source code and
provided some help in maintaing numbering. It is deja vu or does
anyone know about such a thing? I help maintaining a program (lout
(ports/print)) with catgets-style localization and such an utility
would be very handy.
SY, Uwe
--
uwe@ptc.spbu.ru | Zu Grunde kommen
http://www.ptc.spbu.ru/~uwe/ | Ist zu Grunde gehen
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