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List: freebsd-chat
Subject: PowerPC support(was: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?)
From: Greg Lehey <grog () lemis ! com>
Date: 2001-01-07 1:07:48
[Download RAW message or body]
On Saturday, 6 January 2001 at 18:05:24 +0100, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I've been looking a bit more closely into what it would take for
> me to be able to make my PCI PowerMacintosh 7200/90 usable with some
> *BSD variant. Theoretically, it's usable today with MkLinux, but we
> know that this is a dead-end project, and I'm not interested in
> dead-ends.
>
> I looked, and of course FreeBSD does not currently support
> PowerPC.
Benno Rice is working on it. Don't expect anything usable for a
while.
Greg
--
Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
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To: "Rob Snow (Lists)" <lists@dympna.com>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject: Re: Hmm, dupes?
In-Reply-To: Message from "Rob Snow (Lists)" <lists@dympna.com>
of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:49:06 CST." <021101c077df$0e72f0c0$2100000a@dympna.com>
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"Rob Snow (Lists)" writes:
> Is anyone else seeing LOTS of dupes on -questions, -chat, etc? I just
> re-subscribed due to some flaky DNS issues and am seeing 60% dupes on
> messages...I wish it were 100% or 0%, that would be much easier to solve.
> which lists@dympna.com shows only single entries.
If the messages are spawning in the delivery stage the duplicates will
have the same Message-ID: header. Several ways to deal with that but I
use "slocal -suppressdup" out of the nmh package. Procmail has ways too.
Well, no, actually I don't quite. I don't use the -suppressdup flag as I
hacked the source and made that the default. Such is what source code is
good for.
If you use this technique on your account, you'll have to zero
~/.maildelivery.db every now and then.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
In-reply-to: Message from Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:05:24 +0100." <v04220802b67cfb78ebe0@[172.17.1.121]>
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Brad Knowles writes:
> I found a site that has 7200 logic board upgrades available (see
> <http://www.micromac.com/products/lb_pm7500_upgrade.html>), and for
> about $600 (after the $200 rebate they send you when you send in your
> 7200 logic board), you can get a machine that should be minimally
> usable with NetBSD.
Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are
$1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64
bit PCI slots, and DVD. Most Mac mailorder houses throw in extra memory
for free as Apple regulates the advertised sale price but not the free
add-ins. Ordered mine from http://www.outpost.com/ at 10PM one night,
it arrived 9:30AM with 128MB extra and free shipping.
While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD, Apple is. MacOS X.
And the open source BSD core of MacOS X is Darwin, same price as
FreeBSD.
Am still thinking about how I'm going to slice up my 20G HD for MacOS
9, X, and Darwin. Meanwhile "Toy Story" 1 and 2 DVD's are impressive on
a G4 with 21" monitor at 1280x1024.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:55:00 -1000 (HST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
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On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> Brad Knowles writes:
> > I found a site that has 7200 logic board upgrades available (see
> > <http://www.micromac.com/products/lb_pm7500_upgrade.html>), and for
> > about $600 (after the $200 rebate they send you when you send in your
> > 7200 logic board), you can get a machine that should be minimally
> > usable with NetBSD.
>
> Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are
> $1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64
> bit PCI slots, and DVD. Most Mac mailorder houses throw in extra memory
> for free as Apple regulates the advertised sale price but not the free
> add-ins. Ordered mine from http://www.outpost.com/ at 10PM one night,
> it arrived 9:30AM with 128MB extra and free shipping.
>
> While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD, Apple is. MacOS X.
> And the open source BSD core of MacOS X is Darwin, same price as
> FreeBSD.
>
> Am still thinking about how I'm going to slice up my 20G HD for MacOS
> 9, X, and Darwin. Meanwhile "Toy Story" 1 and 2 DVD's are impressive on
> a G4 with 21" monitor at 1280x1024.
Interesting, which machine did you get exactly? It would be great
if MacOS X can run binaries that can run under the x86 FreeBSD platform...
Cheers,
Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ]
WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ]
San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]
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To: Francisco Reyes <lists@reyes.somos.net>
Cc: FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
In-reply-to: Message from Francisco Reyes <lists@reyes.somos.net>
of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 15:16:03 EST." <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101061448440.3338-100000@zoraida.reyes.somos.net>
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Francisco Reyes writes:
> Is ECC woth the money for a home server?
> It will be running a few lightly visited web sites.
> I understand what ECC does, but what I don't have a clue is how often
> errors would occur under normal circustance which would be trapped by ECC.
>
> As long as I keep the case cooled properly why would there be memory
> errors?
>
> Any recommendation on ECC motherboards? So far I have only seen some Tyan
> mobos listed with ECC.
I recommend ECC for everyone. The memory should be no more than 12%
more expensive. The real use of ECC isn't so much the real time
correction of errors, but for the real time *detection* of errors.
Otherwise it can be very difficult to track down the difference between
a random software error and a memory error.
Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant
chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction
every day or two. Rarely do they get into perpetual ECC corrections (as
would indicate a catastrophic failure).
Used to have about 25 Sun and SGI machines. Over a 3 year period we had
about one memory SIMM replaced every 3 months. Must be considered that
we had more memory in these machines than was common in PC's in 1996.
Then again, they were better built than PC hardware.
Over the last 12 years I have had memory fail in my own computers 3
times. Not counting new memory that arrived DOA (duh! don't ship it in
white peanuts, use pink ones if you must).
As for MBs? The new VIA KT133 does *not* do ECC (Asus A7V) but am told
the older KX133 does. The Intel chipsets for Pentium-II and up do, but I
don't know about the low cost chipsets such as 810. The good old BX
chipset (and Asus P3B-F) certainly does.
With all that said, I don't know what FreeBSD does in the face of an
ECC correction event. Not sure if it logs or not.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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To: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
In-reply-to: Message from Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:55:00 -1000." <Pine.BSF.4.31.0101061854030.57171-100000@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
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Vincent Poy writes:
> On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
>
> > Brad Knowles writes:
> > > I found a site that has 7200 logic board upgrades available (see
> > > <http://www.micromac.com/products/lb_pm7500_upgrade.html>), and for
> > > about $600 (after the $200 rebate they send you when you send in your
> > > 7200 logic board), you can get a machine that should be minimally
> > > usable with NetBSD.
> >
> > Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are
> > $1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64
> > bit PCI slots, and DVD. Most Mac mailorder houses throw in extra memory
> > for free as Apple regulates the advertised sale price but not the free
> > add-ins. Ordered mine from http://www.outpost.com/ at 10PM one night,
> > it arrived 9:30AM with 128MB extra and free shipping.
> >
> > While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD, Apple is. MacOS X.
> > And the open source BSD core of MacOS X is Darwin, same price as
> > FreeBSD.
> >
> > Am still thinking about how I'm going to slice up my 20G HD for MacOS
> > 9, X, and Darwin. Meanwhile "Toy Story" 1 and 2 DVD's are impressive on
> > a G4 with 21" monitor at 1280x1024.
>
> Interesting, which machine did you get exactly? It would be great
> if MacOS X can run binaries that can run under the x86 FreeBSD platform...
Top right corner of this where it says, "Power Mac G4 From $1299".
That's what I got. The bottom of the line (400MHz vs 500MHz) single CPU
model. http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore
But as I said above, I bought from Outpost.com. Doesn't look like their
web server will generate a URL I can bookmark or email. But its fairly
easy to navigate. They are currently showing backorder of 1 to 2 weeks.
At the same time I backordered a G3 PowerBook 500MHz, 256MB, $2200.
Decided that was at least comparable to anything Intel/AMD. But had the
double whammy of the Apple GUI, and the forthcoming power of Unix/BSD.
Couldn't resist any longer.
The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has
Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA
was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its
not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory.
Doubt MacOS X will ever run x86 FreeBSD binaries. VirtualPC is said to
be able to run FreeBSD now on any PowerMac under recent MacOS's.
Haven't tried. Was told patches were needed and downloadable from the
support site for my VirtualPC 3.0. Got the 4.0 update with the G4.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:10:07 -1000 (HST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> Vincent Poy writes:
> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> >
> > > Brad Knowles writes:
> > > > I found a site that has 7200 logic board upgrades available (see
> > > > <http://www.micromac.com/products/lb_pm7500_upgrade.html>), and for
> > > > about $600 (after the $200 rebate they send you when you send in your
> > > > 7200 logic board), you can get a machine that should be minimally
> > > > usable with NetBSD.
> > >
> > > Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are
> > > $1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64
> > > bit PCI slots, and DVD. Most Mac mailorder houses throw in extra memory
> > > for free as Apple regulates the advertised sale price but not the free
> > > add-ins. Ordered mine from http://www.outpost.com/ at 10PM one night,
> > > it arrived 9:30AM with 128MB extra and free shipping.
> > >
> > > While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD, Apple is. MacOS X.
> > > And the open source BSD core of MacOS X is Darwin, same price as
> > > FreeBSD.
> > >
> > > Am still thinking about how I'm going to slice up my 20G HD for MacOS
> > > 9, X, and Darwin. Meanwhile "Toy Story" 1 and 2 DVD's are impressive on
> > > a G4 with 21" monitor at 1280x1024.
> >
> > Interesting, which machine did you get exactly? It would be great
> > if MacOS X can run binaries that can run under the x86 FreeBSD platform...
>
> Top right corner of this where it says, "Power Mac G4 From $1299".
> That's what I got. The bottom of the line (400MHz vs 500MHz) single CPU
> model. http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore
>
> But as I said above, I bought from Outpost.com. Doesn't look like their
> web server will generate a URL I can bookmark or email. But its fairly
> easy to navigate. They are currently showing backorder of 1 to 2 weeks.
>
> At the same time I backordered a G3 PowerBook 500MHz, 256MB, $2200.
> Decided that was at least comparable to anything Intel/AMD. But had the
> double whammy of the Apple GUI, and the forthcoming power of Unix/BSD.
> Couldn't resist any longer.
>
> The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has
> Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA
> was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its
> not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory.
>
> Doubt MacOS X will ever run x86 FreeBSD binaries. VirtualPC is said to
> be able to run FreeBSD now on any PowerMac under recent MacOS's.
> Haven't tried. Was told patches were needed and downloadable from the
> support site for my VirtualPC 3.0. Got the 4.0 update with the G4.
Interesting... I was planning to get a Cube just to run a FreeBSD
machine but I never thought about the VIrtualPC option.
Cheers,
Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ]
WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ]
San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]
Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin
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Message-ID: <02a101c07870$d760f5e0$2100000a@dympna.com>
From: "Rob Snow (Lists)" <lists@dympna.com>
To: "Francisco Reyes" <fran@reyes.somos.net>
Cc: <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0101061949330.4725-100000@zoraida.reyes.somos.net>
Subject: Re: Hmm, dupes?
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:12:40 -0600
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My dupes seem to have stopped as of 1/5 around 7:30pm CST. Not sure why,
but with the recent flakyness of my DNS, I'm going to write it off....it's
stopped now. (primary and secondary DNS are offsite and went through some
serious route flappage during a router change and BGP confusion related to
the change)
-Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisco Reyes" <fran@reyes.somos.net>
To: "Rob Snow (Lists)" <lists@dympna.com>
Cc: <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Hmm, dupes?
> On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, Rob Snow (Lists) wrote:
> >Is anyone else seeing LOTS of dupes on -questions, -chat, etc? I just
>
> Yes. It doesn't seem however like it is all messages though.
>
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From: "Rob Snow (Lists)" <lists@dympna.com>
To: <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Great Firewall
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 00:28:44 -0600
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Greetings,
My name is Jiang Zemin and I am interested to know if FreeBSD can be used to
make a firewall that can filter content based on addresses as well as
content. Would it be possible to make a firewall that could block addresses
or sites based on words?
I would like to block certain sites (.gov, chinasucks.com/net/org,
communismdoesntwork.com/net/org) as well as any site that wrongly sends
information with a selection of words that might include:
communism blows fails imprisons
nuclear secrets stolen
huge payoffs to political parties
Would FreeBSD be able to handle this for a 56k connection for my
country^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hsite?
Thank you,
Jiang Zemin
jz@ivegotnukestoo.cn
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To: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
In-reply-to: Message from Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
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Vincent Poy writes:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> > Doubt MacOS X will ever run x86 FreeBSD binaries. VirtualPC is said to
> > be able to run FreeBSD now on any PowerMac under recent MacOS's.
> > Haven't tried. Was told patches were needed and downloadable from the
> > support site for my VirtualPC 3.0. Got the 4.0 update with the G4.
>
> Interesting... I was planning to get a Cube just to run a FreeBSD
> machine but I never thought about the VIrtualPC option.
An Apple PowerMac Cube G4 will not run FreeBSD either. Darwin, MacOS 9
and X, are the only options. Also conceivable to run FreeBSD under
VirtualPC.
There have been rumors of Apple building a VirtualPC-like feature into
the OS, or fulling integrating VirtualPC similar to the -box stuff
Apple uses to do classic PPC and 68k Mac stuff under MacOS X. Wait,
they may be dropping the 68k support in X.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:39:33 -1000 (HST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> Vincent Poy writes:
> > On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> > > Doubt MacOS X will ever run x86 FreeBSD binaries. VirtualPC is said to
> > > be able to run FreeBSD now on any PowerMac under recent MacOS's.
> > > Haven't tried. Was told patches were needed and downloadable from the
> > > support site for my VirtualPC 3.0. Got the 4.0 update with the G4.
> >
> > Interesting... I was planning to get a Cube just to run a FreeBSD
> > machine but I never thought about the VIrtualPC option.
>
> An Apple PowerMac Cube G4 will not run FreeBSD either. Darwin, MacOS 9
> and X, are the only options. Also conceivable to run FreeBSD under
> VirtualPC.
>
> There have been rumors of Apple building a VirtualPC-like feature into
> the OS, or fulling integrating VirtualPC similar to the -box stuff
> Apple uses to do classic PPC and 68k Mac stuff under MacOS X. Wait,
> they may be dropping the 68k support in X.
Yeah, I wonder what kinda performance would one get running
FreeBSD under VirtualPC though. Or maybe a bookpc might be a better idea.
Cheers,
Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ]
WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ]
San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]
Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin
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To: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
In-reply-to: Message from Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
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Vincent Poy writes:
> On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> >
> > There have been rumors of Apple building a VirtualPC-like feature into
> > the OS, or fulling integrating VirtualPC similar to the -box stuff
> > Apple uses to do classic PPC and 68k Mac stuff under MacOS X. Wait,
> > they may be dropping the 68k support in X.
>
> Yeah, I wonder what kinda performance would one get running
> FreeBSD under VirtualPC though. Or maybe a bookpc might be a better idea.
The PowerBooks are still G3. MacWorld starts 1/9 and Apple is expected
to announce new hardware. A G4 PowerBook at the least. Knowing this I
decided to buy now any way as the new stuff will not be shipping soon,
and not at the current prices. Then again my PowerBook is backordered.
Can always cancel the backorder.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:03:40 -1000 (HST)
From: Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> Vincent Poy writes:
> > On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> > >
> > > There have been rumors of Apple building a VirtualPC-like feature into
> > > the OS, or fulling integrating VirtualPC similar to the -box stuff
> > > Apple uses to do classic PPC and 68k Mac stuff under MacOS X. Wait,
> > > they may be dropping the 68k support in X.
> >
> > Yeah, I wonder what kinda performance would one get running
> > FreeBSD under VirtualPC though. Or maybe a bookpc might be a better idea.
>
> The PowerBooks are still G3. MacWorld starts 1/9 and Apple is expected
> to announce new hardware. A G4 PowerBook at the least. Knowing this I
> decided to buy now any way as the new stuff will not be shipping soon,
> and not at the current prices. Then again my PowerBook is backordered.
> Can always cancel the backorder.
Nope, I wasn't talking about the PowerBook. I'm talking about the
BookPC as the URL below:
http://www.directron.com/bookpc.html
Cheers,
Vince - vince@WURLDLINK.NET - Vice President ________ __ ____
Unix Networking Operations - FreeBSD-Real Unix for Free / / / / | / |[__ ]
WurldLink Corporation / / / / | / | __] ]
San Francisco - Honolulu - Hong Kong / / / / / |/ / | __] ]
HongKong Stars/Gravis UltraSound Mailing Lists Admin /_/_/_/_/|___/|_|[____]
Almighty1@IRC - oahu.DAL.NET Hawaii's DALnet IRC Network Server Admin
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 09:07:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: Francisco Reyes <lists@reyes.somos.net>,
FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
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On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant
> chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction
> every day or two.
Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the
motherboard.
> As for MBs? The new VIA KT133 does *not* do ECC (Asus A7V) but am told
> the older KX133 does.
Do you know by any chance which motherboards use the old KX133?
Doesn't this affect sales of Athlon CPUs for servers? After all that has
been historically the market for ECC.
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From: naddy@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber)
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:08:31 +0000 (UTC)
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David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> I recommend ECC for everyone. The memory should be no more than 12%
> more expensive. The real use of ECC isn't so much the real time
> correction of errors, but for the real time *detection* of errors.
Considering today's memory market, the greatest benefit from ECC
is probably that you will automatically get quality memory that
way.
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:22:08 +0100
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>,
Vincent Poy <vince@oahu.WURLDLINK.NET>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 12:00 AM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote:
> The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has
> Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA
> was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its
> not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory.
I'm using a G3 PowerBook now, and it definitely *does* have
PCMCIA. In fact, the "Wall Street" model has two PCMCIA slots (I'm
using one of them for a Lucent WaveLAN card that I use in conjunction
with an Apple AirPort base station). The newer "Bronze" model has
only one PCMCIA slot, but it also has an internal AirPort "slot".
--
These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
======================================================================
Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be> || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV
Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124
Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels
http://www.skynet.be || Belgium
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
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Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:25:29 +0100
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 10:49 PM -0600 2001/1/6, David Kelly wrote:
> Doesn't sound like a very good bargain when new Apple PowerMac G4's are
> $1295 for a G4 400 MHz, 64MB, 20G, 56k modem, 10/100/1000 ethernet, 64
> bit PCI slots, and DVD.
Yeah, I know. I could certainly do this, but I was kind of
hoping to be able to put the older machine back to some use for a
semi-reasonable amount of money, as opposed to it just sitting on the
floor.
--
These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
======================================================================
Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be> || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV
Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124
Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels
http://www.skynet.be || Belgium
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
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To: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
Cc: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>,
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FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2001, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> > As for MBs? The new VIA KT133 does *not* do ECC (Asus A7V) but am told
> > the older KX133 does.
> Do you know by any chance which motherboards use the old KX133?
> Doesn't this affect sales of Athlon CPUs for servers? After all that has
> been historically the market for ECC.
I'm thinking the older KX133 is on the Asus K7V.
-----
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
<kris@nospam.catonic.net> |
-------------------------------------------------------
"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."
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To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
From: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
In-reply-to: Message from Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
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Brad Knowles writes:
> At 12:00 AM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote:
>
> > The PowerBook doesn't have PCMCIA. But like the G4 tower it has
> > Firewire and an Airport slot. Only reason I would have wanted PCMCIA
> > was for the compact flash card used in my Kodak DC-290. Then again its
> > not really an issue because the USB interface has been satisfactory.
>
> I'm using a G3 PowerBook now, and it definitely *does* have
> PCMCIA. In fact, the "Wall Street" model has two PCMCIA slots (I'm
> using one of them for a Lucent WaveLAN card that I use in conjunction
> with an Apple AirPort base station). The newer "Bronze" model has
> only one PCMCIA slot, but it also has an internal AirPort "slot".
That's good to know because in searching the pdf datasheet from Apple
specifically for PCMCIA I didn't find anything but the AirPort
reference. Then again, I read it, rather than a more accurate "Find..."
search.
AirPort socket looks awfully similar to PCMCIA. Just harder to get to.
--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@hiwaay.net
=====================================================================
The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its
capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.
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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?fergus?= <forfergus@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: tofergus@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
To: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@freebsd.org>
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i'm not bang up to date so you'll have to forgive me if i'm out. there are a
few incarnations of linux for the powerpc & they're ok with anything pci based
(i was looking for a nu-bus imp. - there are a few of them too but i wouldn't
get too excited).
can't remember the names of them all but yellowdog is certainly one & if you
dig you'll find four or five more . . . including - i believe the darwin
project which is based on freebsd.
basically, try yellowdog - it's nice.
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Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:43:36 +1030 (CST)
From: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>
To: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
Cc: FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Cc: FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>,
Francisco Reyes <lists@reyes.somos.net>,
David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
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On 07-Jan-01 Francisco Reyes wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> > Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant
> > chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction
> > every day or two.
> Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the
> motherboard.
The chipset reports them.. I think an error generates an NMI and a correction has to
be read out of a chipset specific register.
---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
-- Andrew Tanenbaum
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:21:12 +0100
To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
From: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
Cc: FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
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At 5:23 PM -0600 2001/1/7, David Kelly wrote:
> That's good to know because in searching the pdf datasheet from Apple
> specifically for PCMCIA I didn't find anything but the AirPort
> reference. Then again, I read it, rather than a more accurate "Find..."
> search.
That's because it's no longer called a PCMCIA slot -- it's now
called a "PC Card" slot. ;-)
> AirPort socket looks awfully similar to PCMCIA. Just harder to get to.
Pretty much. The AirPort cards are just Lucent WaveLAN cards
with the antenna portion removed and replaced with connections for
the built-in antennas that are found on compatible machines.
In fact, on the Apple AirPort base station, they use real Lucent
WaveLAN "Turbo 11Mb Silver" cards (now from the Orinoco family), and
if you open it up you can replace them with something that does
better encryption (such as the WaveLAN Gold). See
<http://www.msrl.com/airport-gold/> for details.
Of course, all of the AirPort cards are emasculated versions of
the WaveLAN Silver as well, so if you plan to use "real" AirPort
cards, there is no sense in upgrading the base station.
--
These are my opinions -- not to be taken as official Skynet policy
======================================================================
Brad Knowles, <blk@skynet.be> || Belgacom Skynet SA/NV
Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin || Rue Colonel Bourg, 124
Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/12.49 || B-1140 Brussels
http://www.skynet.be || Belgium
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
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To: chat@freebsd.org
Subject: Hard drive copy protection a myth?
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>
Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:16:47 +0100
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Excerpt from the latest RISKS digest:
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 06:35:10 -0500
> From: "Gelsinger, Patrick P" <patrick.p.gelsinger@intel.com>
> Subject: Re: IBM and Intel push copy protection ... (Gilmore, RISKS-21.17)
>
> [Received via Dave Farber, whom Patrick had requested to post a correction.]
>
> Content protection technology misinformation generates negative web-press
> coverage:
>
> An article on *The Register* website "Stealth plan puts copy protection into
> every hard drive" contains false information that the 4C's (Intel, IBM, MEI,
> Toshiba) Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM) is to be applied to
> all PC hard drives. It is misinterpreting a specification for use of CPRM
> with the Compact Flash media format (which supports either semiconductor
> flash memory or IBM microdrives) probably because Compact Flash uses the
> same command protocol interface as standard PC harddrives. The technology
> is neither intended nor licensed for use with PC harddrives and is optional
> even for the supported media types (flash memory and microdrives). John
> Gilmore, a noted privacy and consumer advocate, has picked up the article
> and further propagated the erroneous information and mentioned Intel
> "IBM&Intel push copy protection into ordinary disk drives". I have alerted
> public relations at Intel and are disseminating accurate information within
> Intel and among our industry contacts.
>
> Pat
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org
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To: David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Cc: Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be>,
FreeBSD Chat Mailing List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject: Re: NetBSD vs. FreeBSD?
References: <200101070449.f074nCs07491@grumpy.dyndns.org>
From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>
Date: 08 Jan 2001 11:21:22 +0100
In-Reply-To: David Kelly's message of "Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:49:11 -0600"
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David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net> writes:
> While FreeBSD isn't working on PowerPC port of BSD
Wrong.
DES
--
Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 10:03:10 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Dillon <cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us>
To: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>
Cc: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG,
David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
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Wow... people REALLY need to check their CC's. That was bad. Two CCs
to chat and two CCs to Francisco Reyes.
On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> On 07-Jan-01 Francisco Reyes wrote:
> > On Sat, 6 Jan 2001, David Kelly wrote:
> > > Unless a memory chip fails catastrophically, its hard to find the errant
> > > chip. When they go bad they usually start logging an ECC correction
> > > every day or two.
> > Where does that get reported? As I understand ECC is handled by the
> > motherboard.
>
> The chipset reports them.. I think an error generates an NMI and a
> correction has to be read out of a chipset specific register.
AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction
happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it
has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for
corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error.
-- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net
FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet.
For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development.
http://www.freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 11:47:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
To: Chris Dillon <cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us>
Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>,
FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>,
David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
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On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chris Dillon wrote:
> AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction
> happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it
> has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for
> corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error.
But how will it "alert"? Will show up on the screen?
I finally found an Athlon Tbird motherboard that supports ECC.
Contrary to previous info IT IS KT133.
Abit K7V (I think that is the model.. it is an Abit board anyway).
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:14:53 -0600 (CST)
From: Chris Dillon <cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us>
To: Francisco Reyes <fran@reyes.somos.net>
Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" <doconnor@gsoft.com.au>,
FreeBSD Chat List <freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG>,
David Kelly <dkelly@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: ECC worth the extra cost for SOHO server?
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On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Francisco Reyes wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Jan 2001, Chris Dillon wrote:
>
> > AFAIK, with every X86 chipset I've used at least, the correction
> > happens automatically, and the NMI is only there to alert you that it
> > has happened. Most systems will let you turn the NMI off for
> > corrections and only issue an NMI for an un-correctable error.
>
> But how will it "alert"? Will show up on the screen?
It alerts the OS by issuing an NMI (Non-Maskable Interrupt). What
happens after that is up to the OS. The OS will generally as a "bad
thing" and halt. AFAIK, FreeBSD will always panic whenever it
receives an NMI (unless possibly you specify the NMI_POWERFAIL option
in your kernel config), so I simply turn off NMIs for correctable
errors and leave the NMI on for non-correctable errors. That way
FreeBSD will not panic when a correction has happened and it can carry
on its merry business, but it will take the proper action by panicing
when a non-correctable error has happened.
> I finally found an Athlon Tbird motherboard that supports ECC.
> Contrary to previous info IT IS KT133. Abit K7V (I think that is
> the model.. it is an Abit board anyway).
I wouldn't trust any of those VIA chipsets, especially to do ECC.
You'd be better off getting a motherboard with an Intel 440BX chipset
and a processor to match (wether its a Celeron, PII, PIII). I'm not
sure if the newer Intel 815 does ECC or not, but it would be a better
option if it does. If you're rabid Anti-Intel, either get a board
with AMD's 750 chipset (the first Athlon chipset) and a supported
processor, or get a board with their newest 760 chipset, which you
might have a hard time finding at the moment.
If money is no object, your best bet is to get a motherboard with one
of the ServerWorks chipsets on it (very sweet chipset), which
unfortunately only support Intel processors at the moment. One of
those motherboards will set you back about $600 or more, but they're
the only option, IMHO, for a good X86 server.
-- Chris Dillon - cdillon@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdillon@inter-linc.net
FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet.
For IA32 and Alpha architectures. IA64, PPC, and ARM under development.
http://www.freebsd.org
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Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 16:10:00 -0500
From: Mathew KANNER <mat@cs.mcgill.ca>
To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org
Subject: FBSD rocks yet again
Message-ID: <20010108160959.E16405@cs.mcgill.ca>
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We just moved out backup server to FreeBSD. Turns out, we can
restore from solaris, hpux and linux with the standard issue
restore!!!
Or should I say, UFS rocks.
--Mat
--
Mathew Kanner <mat@CS.McGill.CA> SOCS McGill University
Obtuse quote: He [not me] understands: "This field of perception
is void of perception of man." -- The Quintessence of Buddhism
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Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:11:47 -0700
To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org>, chat@FreeBSD.ORG
From: Brett Glass <brett@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Hard drive copy protection a myth?
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At 03:16 AM 1/8/2001, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote:
>Excerpt from the latest RISKS digest:
[Snip]
>> An article on *The Register* website "Stealth plan puts copy protection into
>> every hard drive" contains false information that the 4C's (Intel, IBM, MEI,
>> Toshiba) Content Protection for Recordable Media (CPRM) is to be applied to
>> all PC hard drives. It is misinterpreting a specification for use of CPRM
>> with the Compact Flash media format (which supports either semiconductor
>> flash memory or IBM microdrives) probably because Compact Flash uses the
>> same
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