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List: fedora-list
Subject: Re: Suggestions for cd ripper...mp3 or wav?
From: Greg Frith <gfrith () gmail ! com>
Date: 2006-09-30 7:53:30
Message-ID: 4C0ACE2C-255B-4035-8634-271E08DB5699 () gmail ! com
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On 29 Sep 2006, at 15:54, Ian Malone wrote:
> On 26/09/06, Daniel Hedlund <daniel@digitree.org> wrote:
>>
>> R. G. Newbury wrote:
>> > I'm also looking for comments on the relative advantages of
>> ripping to
>> > mp3 versus wav files and the 'best' software to play those files
>> back
>> > from the harddrive.
>>
>
>> the FLAC audio format provides exactly the same quality (lossless) as
>> the WAV format but are only a fraction of the size. Compatibility
>> with
>> audio applications is medium to low...but for lossless
>> compression, it's
>> worth it over WAV.
>
> Of course, if you have a flac, you can make a lossy copy of it any
> time
> you want (e.g. keep flac on your hard disc and use it to make mp3s
> for a portable player). So compatibility isn't so much of an
> issue. If
> I rip anything that's going to be difficult to re-rip (e.g. vinyl),
> I'll keep a
> flac copy. That way I can go back to the recording.
>
>> - the MP3 audio format provides a very close (but lossy) version
>> of your
>> audio. Filesize tends to be a fair bit smaller than FLAC (maybe half
>> the size with default 128k settings). MP3 support does not work
>> out of
>
> 168 or 192kbps is a better choice. Of course it depends whether you
> can hear the difference, but I used to find 128kbps mp3 didn't sound
> great.
>
>> the box with Fedora due to certain patent/licensing restrictions.
>> MP3s
>> are very compatible with portable devices and audio application on
>> other
>> operating systems (iTunes, Windows Media Player, etc).
>>
>> - the OGG Vorbis audio format provides a very close (but lossy)
>> version
>> of your audio. Some people argue that it's a little better
>> quality than
>> MP3, but they're close enough for most people. Filesizes tend to be
>> slightly smaller or about the same as MP3. The big difference
>> between
>
> Depends what bit-rate you use, some people will claim you can do
> lower bitrates with Vorbis at the same sound quality, some (a very
> few)
> will claim the other way around.
>
>> the two is the OGG vorbis support is much better under Linux
>> because it
>> doesn't have any patent/licensing problems. However, portable
>> devices
>> and audio players under other operating systems are not very
>> compatible.
>> You'd probably need to download a special audio player or codec
>> under
>> Windows to play them for example.
>>
>
> Winamp will play out of the box, most of the other major players
> (RP, QT,
> WMP) have plugins available. Many of the more community based players
> (foobar, MuiskCube, VLC) support Ogg/Vorbis natively.
>
> The big problem is usually hardware, though this is getting better,
> with
> most quality manufacturers supporting Ogg/Vorbis (there is one
> glaring exception of course but, let's face it, they're overhyped
> anyway).
>
Hi all,
I note the conversation creeping into bitrate/quality territory... A
quick comment: I'm currently in the process of re-ripping my entire
CD collection at 196k from the prior 128k as I now use the audio on
SD Cards in a BOSE stereo system in my car. I don't play music
thumping or loud!, but with a relatively untrained ear can here the
difference on classical and mainstream. This difference wasn't
audible on my... err, ipod. :-). In short there isn't a lot of
filesize difference, space is relatively cheap, so don't waste time
with lesser bit rates now.
Greg.
> --
> imalone
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list@redhat.com
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
--
Greg Frith
gfrith@gmail.com
[Attachment #5 (unknown)]
<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: \
after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On 29 Sep 2006, at 15:54, Ian Malone \
wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On \
26/09/06, Daniel Hedlund <<A \
href="mailto:daniel@digitree.org">daniel@digitree.org</A>> wrote:</DIV> \
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">R. \
G. Newbury wrote:</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: \
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">> I'm also looking for comments on the relative \
advantages of ripping to</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">> mp3 versus wav files and the 'best' \
software to play those files back</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: \
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">> from the harddrive.</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; \
"><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the FLAC audio format provides exactly the \
same quality (lossless) as</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the WAV format but are only a fraction of the \
size.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Compatibility with</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">audio applications is medium to low...but for lossless compression, it's</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">worth it over WAV.</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: \
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Of \
course, if you have a flac, you can make a lossy copy of it any time</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">you want (e.g. keep flac on your hard disc and use it to make mp3s</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">for a portable player). So compatibility isn't so much of an issue.<SPAN \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>If</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I rip anything that's \
going to be difficult to re-rip (e.g. vinyl), I'll keep a</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">flac copy.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>That way I can go back to \
the recording.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: \
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- \
the MP3 audio format provides a very close (but lossy) version of your</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">audio.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Filesize tends to be a fair bit \
smaller than FLAC (maybe half</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the size with default 128k settings).<SPAN \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>MP3 support does not work out of</DIV> \
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">168 or 192kbps is a better \
choice.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Of course it depends whether \
you</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">can hear the difference, but I used to find 128kbps mp3 didn't \
sound</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">great.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE \
type="cite"><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">the box with Fedora due to certain patent/licensing \
restrictions.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>MP3s</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">are very compatible with portable devices and audio application on other</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">operating systems (iTunes, Windows Media Player, etc).</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: \
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; \
"><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">- the OGG Vorbis audio format provides a very close (but lossy) \
version</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">of your audio.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Some \
people argue that it's a little better quality than</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">MP3, but they're close \
enough for most people.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Filesizes tend to \
be</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">slightly smaller or about the same as MP3.<SPAN \
class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>The big difference between</DIV> \
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Depends what bit-rate you \
use, some people will claim you can do</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">lower bitrates with Vorbis \
at the same sound quality, some (a very few)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will claim the other way \
around.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">the two is the OGG vorbis support is much better under Linux because it</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">doesn't have any patent/licensing problems.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> \
</SPAN>However, portable devices</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and audio players under other operating \
systems are not very compatible.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> \
</SPAN>You'd probably need to download a special audio player or codec \
under</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">Windows to play them for example.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: \
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; \
"><BR></DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">Winamp will play out of the box, most of the other major players (RP, QT,</DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">WMP) have plugins available.<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN>Many of \
the more community based players</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">(foobar, MuiskCube, VLC) support Ogg/Vorbis \
natively.</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The big problem is usually \
hardware, though this is getting better, with</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">most quality manufacturers \
supporting Ogg/Vorbis (there is one</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: \
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">glaring exception of course but, let's \
face it, they're overhyped anyway).</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: \
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; \
"><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Hi all,</DIV><DIV><BR \
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I note the conversation creeping into \
bitrate/quality territory... A quick comment: I'm currently in the process of \
re-ripping my entire CD collection at 196k from the prior 128k as I now use the audio \
on SD Cards in a BOSE stereo system in my car. I don't play music thumping or \
loud!, but with a relatively untrained ear can here the difference on classical and \
mainstream. This difference wasn't audible on my... err, ipod. :-). In short there \
isn't a lot of filesize difference, space is relatively cheap, so don't waste time \
with lesser bit rates now.</DIV><DIV><BR \
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Greg.<BR><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
min-height: 14px; "></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">--<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> \
</SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; ">imalone</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; \
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; \
">--<SPAN class="Apple-converted-space"> </SPAN></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; \
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">fedora-list mailing \
list</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; \
margin-left: 0px; "><A \
href="mailto:fedora-list@redhat.com">fedora-list@redhat.com</A></DIV><DIV \
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">To \
unsubscribe: <A href="https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list">https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list</A></DIV> \
</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: \
separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; \
font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; \
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; \
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: \
auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: \
0px; "><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; \
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: \
14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: \
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: \
none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: \
2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN \
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; \
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; \
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: \
normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; \
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; \
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>--</DIV><DIV>Greg Frith</DIV><DIV><A \
href="mailto:gfrith@gmail.com">gfrith@gmail.com</A></DIV><DIV><BR \
class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR \
class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>
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