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List: fedora-devel-list
Subject: Re: future of dual booting Windows and Fedora, redux
From: "Chris Murphy" <lists () colorremedies ! com>
Date: 2022-07-29 12:31:53
Message-ID: 2dd8da98-6b8f-4161-bee1-66b51bd75a36 () www ! fastmail ! com
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On Fri, Jul 29, 2022, at 4:38 AM, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > - Documentation: GRUB's Windows boot option may not work, how to use efibootmgr \
> > --bootnext and --bootorder
>
> Currently there is this (insufficient, of course):
> https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/windows-with-encrypted-disks-bitlocker-cant-be-booted-from-the-grub-boot-menu/20612
>
Looks pretty good actually. What's missing or unclear?
I think we should consider swapping the built-in bootmanager and efibootmgr sections. \
The efibootmgr section needs enhancement first: how to find the Windows boot entry \
number; use case 1: do a one time boot of windows with --bootnext; use case 2: \
persistently make Windows or Fedora the default boot OS with --bootorder; use case 3: \
boot Fedora from Windows when Windows is the default boot OS. Each with examples and \
screenshots.
The efibootmgr CLI is a consistent interface for everyone. It's much easier to \
document concisely. The firmware method defies screenshots or examples. I'd either \
make it a secondary section or remove it, but have no strong feeling about it.
>
> I'd like to see some proper guide available in Fedora Docs/Quick Docs/wiki that I \
> could reference from that Common Issue entry.
I'd like Ask and Quickdoc to be essentially identical. This no conflicting info \
between them. Each is a single authoritative source. And each should be updated in \
parity.
> > In the near term, we're looking at an awareness and documentation effort, while \
> > seeing how the other options shake out. And it probably doesn't significantly \
> > matter whether we change the release criterion now or also wait a bit longer.
>
> We can change the criterion shortly before Final, if needed. Since we expect the \
> situation to improve in the future, we could just add a (temporary) footnote to the \
> existing criterion saying that the special case of Windows partitions encrypted by \
> Bitlocker are exempt from the requirement (of booting Windows from GRUB).
One pretty big weakness I missed in the summary: the non-functional Windows menu item \
in GRUB. That's quite a trap. I'm not sure any documentation adequately addresses \
this. But I also don't know an easy way to detect this situation and either inhibit \
creation of or remove this item.
--
Chris Murphy
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style \
type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On \
Fri, Jul 29, 2022, at 4:38 AM, Kamil Paral wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite" \
id="qt" style=""><div dir="ltr"><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><blockquote \
class="qt-gmail_quote" \
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, \
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;"><div> - Documentation: GRUB's Windows boot option may \
not work, how to use efibootmgr --bootnext and \
--bootorder<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Currently there is this \
(insufficient, of course):<br></div><div><a \
href="https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/windows-with-encrypted-disks-bitlocker-cant-be-b \
ooted-from-the-grub-boot-menu/20612">https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/windows-with-encr \
ypted-disks-bitlocker-cant-be-booted-from-the-grub-boot-menu/20612</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Looks \
pretty good actually. What's missing or unclear?<br></div><div><br></div><div>I think \
we should consider swapping the built-in<span \
style="color:var(--ui-page-color-fg);"> bootmanager and efibootmgr sections. The \
efibootmgr section needs enhancement first: how to find the Windows boot entry \
number; use case 1: do a one time boot of windows with --bootnext; use case 2: \
persistently make Windows or Fedora the default boot OS with --bootorder; use case 3: \
boot Fedora from Windows when Windows is the default boot OS. Each with examples and \
screenshots.</span><br></div><div><br></div><div><span \
style="color:var(--ui-page-color-fg);">The efibootmgr CLI is a consistent interface \
for everyone. It's much easier to document concisely. The firmware method defies \
screenshots or examples. I'd either make it a secondary section or remove it, but \
have no strong feeling about \
it.</span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" \
style=""><div dir="ltr"><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><div><br></div><div>I'd like to \
see some proper guide available in Fedora Docs/Quick Docs/wiki that I could reference \
from that Common Issue \
entry.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I'd like \
Ask and Quickdoc to be essentially identical. This no conflicting info between them. \
Each is a single authoritative source. And each should be updated in \
parity.</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div \
dir="ltr"><div class="qt-gmail_quote"><blockquote class="qt-gmail_quote" \
style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, \
204, 204);padding-left:1ex;">In the near term, we're looking at an awareness and \
documentation effort, while seeing how the other options shake out. And it probably \
doesn't significantly matter whether we change the release criterion now or also wait \
a bit longer.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>We can change the criterion shortly \
before Final, if needed. Since we expect the situation to improve in the future, we \
could just add a (temporary) footnote to the existing criterion saying that the \
special case of Windows partitions encrypted by Bitlocker are exempt from the \
requirement (of booting Windows from \
GRUB).<br></div><div> <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>One \
pretty big weakness I missed in the summary: the non-functional Windows menu item in \
GRUB. That's quite a trap. I'm not sure any documentation adequately addresses this. \
But I also don't know an easy way to detect this situation and either inhibit \
creation of or remove this item.<br></div><div><br></div><div id="sig127415184"><div \
class="signature">--<br></div><div class="signature">Chris \
Murphy<br></div></div></body></html>
[Attachment #6 (text/plain)]
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