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Subject: Re: Fedora minimum hardware requirements
From: JT <jt () obs-sec ! com>
Date: 2021-10-17 22:43:45
Message-ID: CACmU3jsMtTKd+gNU7FaGPre_4gRDjxJeg8si4xZ47boiLqG_XA () mail ! gmail ! com
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I think an important question we should ask is who is the target user we're
thinking about when we consider 'recommendations'. I used to have a pretty
clear picture of what 'recommended/required' meant, and then I did some
charity/volunteer work in Namibia back in the early 2000s and realized that
what I'd consider less than useful hardware, was to some people their daily
driver. I was so used to multitasking that I never even considered that to
some that it was a luxury. That's quite different these days as there's
been almost 20 years of development since then, but there are plenty of
people out there still using hardware that we wouldnt consider using
because we have options. That's one of the reasons I initially got involved
in PuppyLinux back then. Having seen what people outside of the 1st world
country were using and what they had available to them... was rather eye
opening.
Now, to be clear, I'm not suggesting we target those
geographic/demographies over every other. But I dont have a really clear
picture of who we're making the recommendations to. Are we primarily
focusing on 1st world users? Nothing necessarily wrong if that's who we're
targeting Workstation for, but I'm not actually sure.
I know about a decade ago I pitched an idea to Matthew in some email, while
scheduling him for an interview on LAS, about making a version of Fedora
specifically focused on older hardware exactly for those users, but I
didn't have the time to really commit to figuring out what would/wouldn't
work for it... so it never went anywhere. One of these days I should
actually commit to that.
But back on point... who is our expected 'Workstation' user?
On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 08:09:45PM +0000, Zbigniew J=C4=99drzejewski-Szme=
k
> wrote:
> > I think that those numbers (20GB+2GB) are quite reasonable for the
> > stated purpose of "install and run successfully". I think that people
> > know and understand that additional resources are required for
> > additional things, and e.g. we don't need to tell them that they need
> > extra 40GB if they have 40GB of photos. People also understand that if
> > they have an 8 year old laptop with 2GB of RAM, it's not going to be
> > as much fun as a new thing. But again, they know this without us
> > explaining it.
>
> For me, I think the baseline for what we should recommend is: feels
> responsive when doing everyday desktop tasks. For example, browsing the w=
eb
> with some medium number of tabs open on popular websites, and switching t=
o
> a
> video call while that's still open.
>
> I know "feels responsive" is pretty subjective, so, maybe "switching tabs
> should be < 0.1 second" (from
> https://www.nngroup.com/articles/response-times-3-important-limits/).
>
> --
> Matthew Miller
> <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
> Fedora Project Leader
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
> Fedora Code of Conduct:
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[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">I think an important \
question we should ask is who is the target user we're thinking about when we \
consider 'recommendations'. I used to have a pretty clear picture of what \
'recommended/required' meant, and then I did some charity/volunteer work in \
Namibia back in the early 2000s and realized that what I'd consider less than \
useful hardware, was to some people their daily driver. I was so used to multitasking \
that I never even considered that to some that it was a luxury. That's quite \
different these days as there's been almost 20 years of development since then, \
but there are plenty of people out there still using hardware that we wouldnt \
consider using because we have options. That's one of the reasons I initially got \
involved in PuppyLinux back then. Having seen what people outside of the 1st world \
country were using and what they had available to them... was rather eye \
opening.</div><div dir="ltr">Now, to be clear, I'm not suggesting we target those \
geographic/demographies over every other. But I dont have a really clear picture of \
who we're making the recommendations to. Are we primarily focusing on 1st world \
users? Nothing necessarily wrong if that's who we're targeting Workstation \
for, but I'm not actually sure.</div><div>I know about a decade ago I pitched an \
idea to Matthew in some email, while scheduling him for an interview on LAS, about \
making a version of Fedora specifically focused on older hardware exactly for those \
users, but I didn't have the time to really commit to figuring out what \
would/wouldn't work for it... so it never went anywhere. One of these days I \
should actually commit to that. <br>But back on point... who is our expected \
'Workstation' user?</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div \
dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:15 PM Matthew Miller <<a \
href="mailto:mattdm@fedoraproject.org">mattdm@fedoraproject.org</a>> \
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px \
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 \
at 08:09:45PM +0000, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:<br> > I think that those \
numbers (20GB+2GB) are quite reasonable for the<br> > stated purpose of \
"install and run successfully". I think that people<br> > know and \
understand that additional resources are required for<br> > additional things, and \
e.g. we don't need to tell them that they need<br> > extra 40GB if they have \
40GB of photos. People also understand that if<br> > they have an 8 year old \
laptop with 2GB of RAM, it's not going to be<br> > as much fun as a new thing. \
But again, they know this without us<br> > explaining it.<br>
<br>
For me, I think the baseline for what we should recommend is: feels<br>
responsive when doing everyday desktop tasks. For example, browsing the web<br>
with some medium number of tabs open on popular websites, and switching to a<br>
video call while that's still open.<br>
<br>
I know "feels responsive" is pretty subjective, so, maybe "switching \
tabs<br> should be < 0.1 second" (from<br>
<a href="https://www.nngroup.com/articles/response-times-3-important-limits/" \
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.nngroup.com/articles/response-times-3-important-limits/</a>).<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Matthew Miller<br>
<<a href="mailto:mattdm@fedoraproject.org" \
target="_blank">mattdm@fedoraproject.org</a>><br> Fedora Project Leader<br>
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</blockquote></div></div></div>
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