'Re: F35 Change: "Fedora Linux" in /etc/os-release'

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List:       fedora-devel-list
Subject:    Re: F35 Change: "Fedora Linux" in /etc/os-release
From:       Gordon Messmer <gordon.messmer () gmail ! com>
Date:       2021-03-22 6:07:39
Message-ID: 9872c1ba-c881-6201-1769-de37831f1f0f () gmail ! com
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On 3/9/21 7:43 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
>> 2. Why Linux and not GNU/Linux? Linux is just a kernel. GNU/Linux is an OS.
> Fedora Linux is an OS. Although GNU project utilities are indeed essential,
> Fedora Linux consists of more than those plus Linux, and the contributions
> of many of those other projects is equally essential.


Stephen's right to point out that the Linux vs GNU/Linux arguments have 
been mostly the same for 20 years.   Very few of those arguments are 
objective or logical, IMO.   What if we did have a way to define Linux, 
GNU/Linux and Fedora, though? Something neither arbitrary nor capricious...

One of the bad arguments, seen in this thread too, is whether or not 
Linux is an OS or just a kernel.   I think we can accept that Linux is an 
operating system on its own, though it's one that implements a 
non-standard, de facto interface.

The GNU operating system, on the other hand, is a mostly conformant 
implementation of POSIX and related standards.   Its most common variant 
is GNU/Linux.   Because it is an implementation of a formal standard, we 
can objectively identify the GNU/Linux operating system.

The LSB also provides a useful definition of an operating system which 
extends beyond POSIX and related standards.   Fedora does produce an 
operating system that implements that standard, but that operating 
system isn't typically distributed on its own. Rather, it's a small part 
of the Fedora software distribution.

I think it makes sense to differentiate Fedora the operating system from 
Fedora the software distribution, because calling the entire 
distribution an operating system needlessly strains the definition of 
that term.   And that means that Fedora is a project, Fedora is an 
operating system, and Fedora is a software distribution.   If "Fedora 
Linux" has officially been the name of anything in the past, it's 
escaped my notice.   When my laptop boots, it prominently displays a logo 
that says "Fedora".

If we're going to rename the operating system from "Fedora" to "Fedora 
Linux", and that name isn't used to differentiate a variant from one 
with a different kernel, then I think it's kind of conspicuous that 
we're using the name of the kernel and not the name of the POSIX 
operating system that Fedora extends.   And my opinion is that choosing 
not to acknowledge GNU makes the project less welcoming and friendly to 
those of us for whom Free Software is an ethical concern before a 
technical one.

It's also rather conspicuous that when it comes to Apache httpd and 
Eclipse IDE, we honor the name used by the people who wrote the 
software, but when it comes to GNU/Linux, our standards for naming are 
completely different.


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/9/21 7:43 AM, Matthew Miller
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:20210309154332.GC23254@mattdm.org">
      <blockquote type="cite" style="color: #007cff;">
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">2. Why Linux and not GNU/Linux? Linux is \
just a kernel. GNU/Linux is an OS. </pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Fedora Linux is an OS. Although GNU project \
utilities are indeed essential, Fedora Linux consists of more than those plus Linux, \
and the contributions of many of those other projects is equally essential.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Stephen's right to point out that the Linux vs GNU/Linux
      arguments have been mostly the same for 20 years.   Very few of
      those arguments are objective or logical, IMO.   What if we did
      have a way to define Linux, GNU/Linux and Fedora, though?  
      Something neither arbitrary nor capricious...<br>
    </p>
    <p>One of the bad arguments, seen in this thread too, is whether or
      not Linux is an OS or just a kernel.   I think we can accept that
      Linux is an operating system on its own, though it's one that
      implements a non-standard, de facto interface.</p>
    <p>The GNU operating system, on the other hand, is a mostly
      conformant implementation of POSIX and related standards.   Its
      most common variant is GNU/Linux.   Because it is an implementation
      of a formal standard, we can objectively identify the GNU/Linux
      operating system.</p>
    <p>The LSB also provides a useful definition of an operating system
      which extends beyond POSIX and related standards.   Fedora does
      produce an operating system that implements that standard, but
      that operating system isn't typically distributed on its own.  
      Rather, it's a small part of the Fedora software distribution.</p>
    <p>I think it makes sense to differentiate Fedora the operating
      system from Fedora the software distribution, because calling the
      entire distribution an operating system needlessly strains the
      definition of that term.   And that means that Fedora is a project,
      Fedora is an operating system, and Fedora is a software
      distribution.   If "Fedora Linux" has officially been the name of
      anything in the past, it's escaped my notice.   When my laptop
      boots, it prominently displays a logo that says "Fedora".</p>
    <p>If we're going to rename the operating system from "Fedora" to
      "Fedora Linux", and that name isn't used to differentiate a
      variant from one with a different kernel, then I think it's kind
      of conspicuous that we're using the name of the kernel and not the
      name of the POSIX operating system that Fedora extends.   And my
      opinion is that choosing not to acknowledge GNU makes the project
      less welcoming and friendly to those of us for whom Free Software
      is an ethical concern before a technical one.</p>
    <p>It's also rather conspicuous that when it comes to Apache httpd
      and Eclipse IDE, we honor the name used by the people who wrote
      the software, but when it comes to GNU/Linux, our standards for
      naming are completely different.<br>
    </p>
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