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List:       fedora-devel-list
Subject:    Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Fedora-Retired-Packages
From:       Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler () chello ! at>
Date:       2020-06-16 10:24:06
Message-ID: rca6k7$2o3q$1 () ciao ! gmane ! io
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Kamil Paral wrote:
> I'll not talk about implementation, there are more suitable people for
> that here. But I'll voice my opinion that automatically retiring software
> from Fedora users' computers is a sane and proper thing to do. If a
> package is removed from Fedora, it should also be removed from users
> computers (during FN+1 upgrade). Of course, we should allow users to keep
> it, if they want it. But the default process should happen automatically,
> and users should opt-out of automatic retiring, instead of opt-in. Only
> this way we can build a secure and reliable operating system.
> 
> If only power users can opt-out from retiring a package (e.g. by editing
> dnf.conf), I don't think that's a problem. Because even though general
> users will of course be unhappy when an application they use get
> permanently removed during system upgrade, they will be even more unhappy
> when their system suddenly breaks in the future, either by unresolved
> dependencies, or when the retired app/library causes the system to not
> boot or breaks the desktop, because nobody at that points expects and
> tests those software interactions. A general user can resolve a missing
> app, but they can't resolve a broken OS. If they want to deviate from the
> system we provide, it's reasonable to ask them to have certain technical
> knowledge, instead of allowing them to shoot themselves in the foot (even
> unknowingly, by not doing automatic retirement).

I cannot agree with these statements. I think removing working software from 
users' systems is not something we should ever do. I see it as inherently 
incompatible with our "Freedom" principle (what happened to Freedom 0, the 
right to run the software?), and also with "Features" (as removing an 
application obviously removes its features). And it surely will not make you 
any "Friends" either.

        Kevin Kofler
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