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List:       fedora-desktop-list
Subject:    Re: Updated Fedora Workstation PRD draft
From:       Lukáš Tinkl <ltinkl () redhat ! com>
Date:       2013-11-29 13:43:11
Message-ID: 529899EF.8060108 () redhat ! com
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Dne 29.11.2013 14:18, Lennart Poettering napsal(a):
> On Wed, 27.11.13 19:18, Matthew Miller (mattdm@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 12:01:25AM +0100, drago01 wrote:
>>>> I don't think we should aim at the general user, because not only is that
>>>> nebulous, it has all of those same problems.
>>> That happens to be what every successful desktop (and mobile) OS have
>>> been doing.
>>> They built a system that is generally useful, they don't really care
>>> whether you are a developer, graphics designer, gamer or whatever.
>>>
>>> If the operating system works for the general user case it works for
>>> pretty much everything else (it is just a matter of installing the
>>> right applications / tools).
>>>
>>> An operating system designed for a specific user type is doomed to end
>>> up being a niche OS.
>>
>> We're always going to be a niche OS, at least on the desktop -- which is,
>> itself, an increasingly small niche. But, let me restate my initial point.
>> It's great if we can be totally awesome for everyone, and sure, it's fine to
>> try for it. *And*, within that subset of everyone, there are some people we
>> want to make particularly happy.
>>
>> One subset that I've identified is the one I mentioned -- the sysadmin who
>> runs RHEL or Fedora server systems and has Fedora on his or her desktop. The
>> entire LISA conference was _full_ of these people. As I mentioned in the
>> earlier thread, they don't all use Gnome, but they do use Fedora, and very
>> well _could_ use Gnome if we tailored the experience to their needs.
>>
>> I think it's completely fair to say that previously, we've responded to
>> feedback from this demographic with "well, you're not a general user --
>> you're a weird special case". What I want is to acknowledge that even after
>> all these years of that, this is still our loyal base, and to make every one
>> of those feel like we are actually directly listening to their concerns
>> (even if they can't all be addressed).
>
> This is just well disguised anti-GNOME FUD. I don't think this is useful at
> all. You are just trying to turn GNOME into what you personally think
> that GNOME should be, suggesting it was in some way accepted truth that
> GNOME would be awful in its current state for admin and technical
> folks. But that's not accepted truth, that's just your personal
> opinion. And I certainly disagree with it, and so do many

>> That's what _I_ want out of a Fedora Workstation product. If there are other
>> classes of user where the same sort of feeling applies as well, let's
>> include those too. Maybe that *is* developers, although as expressed, I'm
>> skeptical. Maybe it's the maker/designer market -- at least the Creative
>> Commons / Free Culture segment of it. Those aren't areas where I have a huge
>> amount of history, interaction, or feedback from users. I talk about the
>> sysadmin case because there I *do* have those things and I'm quite sure of
>> myself.
>>
>> Is this a matter of just installing the right applications and tools? Maybe.
>> It also involves being responsive to feedback, and testing changes with that
>> audience to make sure that they actually make the experience better as
>> intended, rather than becoming an irritation.
>

<snip>

>
> Without GNOME you wouldn't have standardized IPC on Linux (I mean,
> seriously fuck it, which other general purpose OS has no sane
> standardized IPC to start with?), there wouldn't be sane device
> management, nothing. The "base OS" people of Linux couldn't get here shit
> together to get this infrastructure in place, so the GNOME guys had to
> do it instead.

You would have, I know this FAQ is really outdated but still, there was 
a DCOP IPC mechanism before DBUS got created and which KDE also adopted 
later on: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-faq.html#dcop

<quote>
D-Bus is intentionally pretty similar to DCOP, and can be thought of as 
a "DCOP the next generation" suitable for sharing between the various 
open source desktop projects.
</quote>

-- 
Lukáš Tinkl <ltinkl@redhat.com>
Software Engineer - KDE desktop team, Brno
KDE developer <lukas@kde.org>
Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com
-- 
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