[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
List: extremeprogramming
Subject: [XP] =?utf-8?q?Re=3a=20=5bXP=5d=20Agile=20Criteria=20was=20Re=3a=20Capers=20Jones=20article=20on=20A
From: <simon () tcbventures ! com>
Date: 2008-01-31 16:28:41
Message-ID: E1JKcHJ-0005J8-MS () artemis ! hosts ! co ! uk
[Download RAW message or body]
on 31/1/08 3:30 PM, extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Steven Gordon wrote:
>
>> What you say makes sense from the point of view of somebody in the
>> trenches developing software today.
>
> Sorry. My apologies. I'll try not to do it again.
>
> <a beat>
>
> C-:
>
>> Can a team be agile without using CI? Why not include CI? Why not
>> include all the XP practices?
>
> We don't do Planning Game or Acceptance Tests, and we are doing generally
okay.
No Acceptance tests? I'd expect that in *any* approach....
Or do you mean automated acceptance tests?
Must still be quite difficult for any software system without Automated AA =
to be
agile... Currently where I'm working,a regression pack takes two week *dura=
tion*
to do manually... very hard to be agile like that.
>
> --
> Phlip
>
>
>
[Attachment #3 (text/html)]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" \
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html>
<head>
</head>
<body style="background-color: #ffffff;">
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-mlmsg" style="width:655px; position:relative;">
<div id="ygrp-msg" style="width: 490px; padding: 0 15px 0 0; float:left; \
z-index:1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~-->
<div id="ygrp-text">
<p>on 31/1/08 3:30 PM, <a \
href="mailto:extremeprogramming%40yahoogroups.com">extremeprogramming@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a> \
wrote:<br> <br>
> Steven Gordon wrote:<br>
><br>
>> What you say makes sense from the point of view of somebody in the<br>
>> trenches developing software today.<br>
><br>
> Sorry. My apologies. I'll try not to do it again.<br>
><br>
> <a beat><br>
><br>
> C-:<br>
><br>
>> Can a team be agile without using CI? Why not include CI? Why not<br>
>> include all the XP practices?<br>
><br>
> We don't do Planning Game or Acceptance Tests, and we are doing generally<br>
okay.<br>
<br>
No Acceptance tests? I'd expect that in *any* approach....<br>
<br>
Or do you mean automated acceptance tests?<br>
<br>
Must still be quite difficult for any software system without Automated AA to be<br>
agile... Currently where I'm working,a regression pack takes two week *duration*<br>
to do manually... very hard to be agile like that.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Phlip<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</p>
</div>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<span width="1" style="color: white;">__._,_.___</span>
<!-- Start the section with Message In topic -->
<div id="ygrp-actbar">
<span class="left">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/message/138468;_yl \
c=X3oDMTM4a2Vqdm1pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BG1zZ0lkAzEzODQ4MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQEdHBjSWQDMTM4NDY4">
Messages in this topic </a> (<span class="bld">2</span>)
</span>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNT \
JyOTJkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BG1zZ0lkAzEzODQ4MARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-?act=reply&messageNum=138480">
<span class="bld">
Reply </span> (via web post)
</a> |
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYX \
Zzdm84BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc5NjkyNA--" \
class="bld"> Start a new topic </a>
</div>
<!------- Start Nav Bar ------>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vitnav">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/messages;_yl \
c=X3oDMTJlb2drc3BzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc5NjkyNA--">Messages</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaW \
9xcHM2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">Files</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlc \
XRjbGpjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc5NjkyNA--">Photos</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOD \
RqOWZvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">Links</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJ \
jMDhhbDE4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">Database</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYT \
EzdnBvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">Polls</a> \
| <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJl \
aTg4NHMzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21icnMEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc5NjkyNA--">Members</a> \
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-grft">
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
To Post a message, send it to: \
extremeprogramming@eGroups.com<BR> <BR>
To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: \
extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@eGroups.com<BR> <BR>
ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div>
<!-- yahoo logo -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-ft">
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkN25qMzczBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkA \
zE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjAxNzk2OTI0">
<img src="http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/yg/img/logo/ma_grp_160.gif" \
height="15" width="106" border="0" alt="Yahoo! Groups"></a> <br> <a \
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmaWlwM2Y1BF9TA \
zk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">Change \
settings via the Web</a> (Yahoo! ID required) <br> Change settings via email: <a \
href="mailto:extremeprogramming-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery: \
Digest">Switch delivery to Daily Digest</a> | <a href = \
"mailto:extremeprogramming-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery \
Format: Traditional">Switch format to Traditional</a> <br>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZHZpcWd0B \
F9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjAxNzk2OTI0">
Visit Your Group
</a> |
<a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use </a> |
<a href="mailto:extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=">
Unsubscribe </a>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<!-- Sponsor -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-sponsor" style="width:140px;float: left; clear: none; margin-left: \
5px; background:white; margin-bottom:25px ;position:absolute; top:0; right: 0;"> \
<!-- Network content -->
<!-- Start vitality -->
<div id="ygrp-vital">
<div id="vithd">Recent Activity</div>
<ul style="list-style-type:none; padding: 0; margin: 2px 0;">
<li style="clear: both;">
<div class="ct" style="float: right;"><span \
style="display:none"> </span>24</div> <div class="cat"><a \
href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZmJhMHViBF \
9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMDE3OTY5MjQ-">New \
Members</a></div> </li>
</ul>
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming;_ylc=X3oDMTJlYWR \
vNzBnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1MDU0MDkEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjc2NzE4BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIwMTc5NjkyNA--">
Visit Your Group </a>
</div>
<!-- Network content -->
<div id="nc">
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Yahoo! Finance</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o6t5c6k/M=493064.12016257.12445664.8674578/D \
=groups/S=1707276718:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1201804124/L=/B=BWCKA0Je5tI-/J=1201796924925224/A= \
4507179/R=0/SIG=12de4rskk/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=50284/*http://finance.yahoo.com/personal-finance">It's \
Now Personal</a></p> <p>Guides, news,</p>
<p>advice & more.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">Self Improvement</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o5kjq2p/M=493064.12117552.12537389.8674578/D \
=groups/S=1707276718:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1201804124/L=/B=BmCKA0Je5tI-/J=1201796924925224/A= \
5170404/R=0/SIG=11ml7n8m5/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/selfimprovement/">on \
Yahoo! Groups</a></p> <p>Connect with people</p>
<p>and get support.</p> </div>
<div class="ad">
<div id="hd1">How-To Zone</div>
<p><a href="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o4kd73h/M=493064.12117566.12537396.8674578/D \
=groups/S=1707276718:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1201804124/L=/B=B2CKA0Je5tI-/J=1201796924925224/A=5170405/R=0/SIG=11gfoiqic/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/craftsman/">on \
Yahoo! Groups</a></p> <p>Discuss home and</p>
<p>garden projects.</p> </div>
</div>
</div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div>
</div> <img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=1505409/grpspId=1707276718/msgId=138480/stime=1201796924/nc1=4507179/nc2=5170404/nc3=5170405" \
width="1" height="1"> <br>
<span style="color: white;">__,_._,___</span>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</body>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~-->
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mkp{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
font-family: Arial;
margin: 14px 0px;
padding: 0px 14px;
}
#ygrp-mkp hr{
border: 1px solid #d8d8d8;
}
#ygrp-mkp #hd{
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 85%;
font-weight: bold;
line-height: 122%;
margin: 10px 0px;
}
#ygrp-mkp #ads{
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad{
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a{
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: bold;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
-->
</style>
</head>
<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px; font-family: \
arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;*font-size:small;*font:x-small;} #ygrp-mlmsg table \
{font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% \
arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% \
monospace;*font-size:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p{
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
font-family: Arial;
clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
padding-top: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
clear: both;
margin: 25px 0;
white-space:nowrap;
color: #666;
text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
float: left;
white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 77%;
padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
font-family: verdana;
font-size: 77%;
border-top: 1px solid #666;
padding: 5px 0;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-vital{
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
font-size: 77%;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: bold;
color: #333;
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
padding: 0;
margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
list-style-type: none;
clear: both;
border: 1px solid #e0ecee;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
font-weight: bold;
color: #ff7900;
float: right;
width: 2em;
text-align:right;
padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-vital a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
color: #999;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
padding: 6px 13px;
background-color: #e0ecee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
text-decoration: none;
font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc{
background-color: #eee;
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
font-family: Arial;
font-weight: bold;
color: #628c2a;
font-size: 100%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
margin: 0;
}
o{font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal{
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq{margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->
[prev in list] [next in list] [prev in thread] [next in thread]
Configure |
About |
News |
Add a list |
Sponsored by KoreLogic