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List:       eros-arch
Subject:    Re: [EROS-Arch] Re: [E-Lang] Re: Interaction Design for
From:       kragen () pobox ! com
Date:       2001-04-10 1:41:26
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Seth Johnson <seth.johnson@realmeasures.dyndns.org> writes:
> kragen@pobox.com wrote:
> > Seth Johnson <seth.johnson@realmeasures.dyndns.org> writes:
> > > People can use a device that has a BIOS that only allows them to boot up
> > > into a set of security protocols, but that's a tool for information
> > > consumers, not information producers in the full sense of the term.
> > 
> > I disagree.  Such a device could be used to consume information, and
> > its maker could prevent owners from having root access to it; or its
> > owner could use the same technical tool to keep their officemates from
> > getting root by inserting a floppy.
> 
> Turing-completeness isn't really the measure of the "full sense" of what
> information producers can do.
> 
> One might build a case at that level, but as I said, what you end up
> with in this case isn't a computer; it's a consumer appliance for
> running apps and coding the OS, rather than being able to code the
> machine.

It might or might not be; that depends on who controls the
capabilities that constitute root: the ability to reflash the BIOS,
the ability to control hardware that uses DMA, the ability to upgrade
the OS kernel.  If the SPA holds them, as suggested in "The Right To
Read", then yeah, you're right.  But if the owner of the machine holds
them, it's just as universal as any other machine.

> Now, the OS might provide capabilities to its owners for them to access
> machine architecture, but if it doesn't, those "information producers"
> are proscribed from specific areas.

Right, exactly.  For example, they could be prohibited from making
copies of installed software, directly reading DVD drives or other
copy-protected data, or accessing the network except through
government-approved filters.

I hypothesize that it's better to have the ability for people to
reliably maintain control of their machines than not, and that
computers will be generally available that will allow their owners to
control them, rather than acting as agents of the SPA, RIAA, DVD-CCA,
NSA, or Microsoft.

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