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List: debian-user
Subject: Re: Non-free firmware [was: Debian install Question]
From: David Goodenough <david.goodenough () btconnect ! com>
Date: 2021-03-01 10:23:51
Message-ID: 4604997.GXAFRqVoOG () continuum
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How is a naive user meant to know whether his hardware required non-free firmware?
The only route that seems to be given by this wording is that they install (or try to install)
the system using the official image, and then have to work out for themselves what does
not work, and from that which unofficial image to use.
Could the installer not help here by identifying hardware it can not support but which an
unofficial image does support and point the user in the right
direction? Yes the knowledge of which hardware exists changes over time, and after the
installer is built, but if the unofficial images had machine readable descriptors on the
debian web site of what they support (which would be updated each time a new image
was added) then the installer could consult this and thus be able to give the best available
advice.
On Monday, 1 March 2021 09:29:57 GMT Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Du, 28 feb 21, 12:03:31, Celejar wrote:
> > Snark aside, what's wrong with something like this:
> >
> > "Many wireless network cards (and even some wired ones) require
> > non-free firmware to function properly. This firmware is not included
> > in the standard installation images, due to Debian's free software
> > ideals. If the network hardware your installation will rely upon
> > requires such firmware, you may consider using the alternate non-free
> > installation images available here."
>
> For those who didn't visit the Debian website recently, following the
> discussion on debian-devel this is now two clicks away from the home
> page (-> More... -> Download: More variants of Debian images):
>
> https://www.debian.org/distrib/
>
> If any of the hardware in your system requires non-free firmware to
> be loaded with the device driver, you can use one of the tarballs of
> common firmware packages or download an unofficial image including
> these non-free firmwares.
>
> Instructions how to use the tarballs and general information about
> loading firmware during an installation can be found in the
> Installation Guide.
>
> unofficial installation images for "stable" with firmware included
>
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
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<body><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">How is a \
naive user meant to know whether his hardware required non-free firmware? The \
only route that seems to be given by this wording is that they install (or try to \
install) the system using the official image, and then have to work out for \
themselves what does not work, and from that which unofficial image to use. \
</p> <br><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Could \
the installer not help here by identifying hardware it can not support but which an \
unofficial image does support and point the user in the right </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">direction? \
Yes the knowledge of which hardware exists changes over time, and after the installer \
is built, but if the unofficial images had machine readable descriptors on the debian \
web site of what they support (which would be updated each time a new image was \
added) then the installer could consult this and thus be able to give the best \
available advice.</p> <br><p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">On Monday, 1 March \
2021 09:29:57 GMT Andrei POPESCU wrote:</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> On Du, 28 feb \
21, 12:03:31, Celejar wrote:</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > Snark \
aside, what's wrong with something like this:</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > \
"Many wireless network cards (and even some wired ones) require</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > non-free \
firmware to function properly. This firmware is not included</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > in the \
standard installation images, due to Debian's free software</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > ideals. \
If the network hardware your installation will rely upon</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > requires \
such firmware, you may consider using the alternate non-free</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> > \
installation images available here."</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> For those who \
didn't visit the Debian website recently, following the</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> discussion on \
debian-devel this is now two clicks away from the home</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> page (-> \
More... -> Download: More variants of Debian images):</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
https://www.debian.org/distrib/</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
If any of the hardware in your system requires non-free firmware to</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
be loaded with the device driver, you can use one of the tarballs of</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
common firmware packages or download an unofficial image including</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
these non-free firmwares.</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
Instructions how to use the tarballs and general information about</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
loading firmware during an installation can be found in the</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
Installation Guide.</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
unofficial installation images for "stable" with firmware included</p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p> <p \
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Kind \
regards,</p> <p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> \
Andrei</p> <br><br></body>
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