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List:       debian-devel
Subject:    Re: adding desktop files to misc packages
From:       Neil Williams <linux () codehelp ! co ! uk>
Date:       2007-07-16 18:03:17
Message-ID: 20070716190317.b98875dc.linux () codehelp ! co ! uk
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On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 18:16:49 -0600
Bruce Sass <bmsass@shaw.ca> wrote:

> > > Why not drop the Debian Menu Policy completely? The only sane
> > > argument against .desktop is hierarchy support but then the most
> > > pertinent complaint against menu is that the hierarchy is wasteful.
> >
> > The Freedesktop menu has hierarchy support, but it's much more clever
> > than the Debian menu's.
> >
> > The most important argument against it is more about window manager
> > coverage. There are a good number of packages with Debian menu
> > support and no Freedesktop menu support.
> 
> Neil,
> 
> If by "drop the Debian Menu Policy completely" you mean adopting 
> Freedesktop's .desktop file format, menu hierarchy rules, and whatever 
> tools they have for working with menus---sure. From an enduser's 
> perspective it doesn't matter what lies beneath the menus we see[1], if 
> you DD's decide the Freedesktop way is the better one for packaging 
> menu entries then so be it.

I like Don's idea - remove the Debian menu from those window managers
etc. that understand .desktop files and make the Debian menu aware
of .desktop files for those other systems.

> 1. Make changes to the menu system to use .desktop files in preference
> to .menu files when they exist
> 
> 2. Generate .desktop files from .menu files using the menu system when
> .desktop files don't exist.
> 
> 3. Continue using the menu system for window managers which don't
> natively understand .desktop files; drop the Debian menu for those
> that do.

> If you are suggesting dropping the Debian menu infrastructure as well, 
> therebye forcing the other window managers to learn how to 
> read .desktop files or convert them into their native format on their 
> own time---that sounds like a bad idea. 

True - that is avoidable so there's no need to go that far.

> I would think that would be enough to place the idea of dropping the 
> menu infrastructure in the non-starter category, but obviously it isn't 
> because "window manager coverage" is an issue. 

If the current Debian Menu Policy is rewritten along the lines set out
in Don Armstrong's email, that is fine with me.

> [2] it has been awhile since I used Gnome but their menus used to be 
> slower than KDE's, KDE's have gotten slower (and take up more HDD 
> space, perhaps a consequence of the Freedesktop related stuff added to 
> the menu subsystem and maybe why there has been a push to swith 
> to .desktop files)... but the menus I get with UWM are always very fast

Depends what else has been happening on the machine - the .desktop
based menus load very quickly if there is sufficient cache. The first
time I view either menu, I get the same delay on this amd64 box, it
appears to be the icons that are the cause of the delay, not the source
of the textual data.

-- 


Neil Williams
=============
http://www.data-freedom.org/
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/
http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/


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