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List:       debian-devel
Subject:    Re: Survey on Debian usage
From:       "Mgr. Peter Tuharsky" <tuharsky () misbb ! sk>
Date:       2004-04-30 13:11:38
Message-ID: 4092508A.1050600 () misbb ! sk
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 * Survey

 - Q: Are you a:  (note: you may choose more than one)
   A:
      [ ] Debian developer, or otherwise involved in contributing to Debian
      [ ] Free software developer
      [X] User, using Debian for: Home desktop, work desktop, thin-client terminal \
server, file, dns/dhcp, firewall/proxy, mail server _________________________  [ ] \
Other: __________________________________


 - Q: Could you please provide one or two typical episodes (whatever you feel
      like) of your life with Debian?
   A: I was new in Debian, and I couldn't get mouse working. I stuck with gpm and \
mouse didn't work. Don't know how I found hidden functions of GPM, but some of them \
were very helpful.  Then a friend suggested me a magical line: dpkg-reconfigure \
xserver-xfree86. Finally after few hours I was able to run X, although I didn't \
understand difference between Xserver 3.x and Xserver 4.x so I used 3.3.6 because the \
names at least guided me to find the right server for my videocard.  The playing with \
X server parameters was quest alone. The "utils" in emergency X desktop were useless; \
I learned that if something is wrong with X, I shouldn't bore with the way the X \
suggests me, I must shoot him down and re-run dpkg-reconfigure... instead.  The \
national keyboard sk_qwerty didn't work, not to mention switching between us and \
sk_qwerty like in Window$. I have found many very ancient howtos from the potato age, \
but it seemed that anything should work just right in Woody. But it didn't, at least \
I didn't find a way to do it.  Finally, I changed the machine and the new \
GNOME-capable one solved the problem because the GNOME has an applet to switch the \
keyboards. No, it didn't work correctly, but I learned how to change the switching \
line (setxkbmap sk_qwerty) and other settings (ISO8859-2 instead of default 8859-1, \
Czech and slovak instead of Slovak etc.) to achieve working keyboard switcher.  The \
application bars had problems with diacritics, and I googled that Woody has locales \
problem, but friend adviced again: add a line LC_ALL sk_SK to /etc/profiles, relogin, \
and run dpkg-reconfigure locales. Yes, it worked! I selected the same things as \
during installation, but this time it worked at least!  Then he teached me, that if I \
want ISO8859-2 console displayed correctly, setting it in locales isn't enough: I \
must install the FONTY package. Yes, worked again. What could I do without the friend \
I cannot imagine.  The menu fonts of GNOME are incorrect sometimes and don't display \
diacritics correctly, but this is thing I can live with.  I learned how to add the \
needful reboot/shutdown items to GDM. Not trivial, but I was finally able to: go to \
gdm.conf, unblock the AllowRootLogin or whatever, start GNOME as root, find the GDM \
Configurator (after 5 times I remember the way) and chcek the box in System menu.  I \
needed newer Mozilla than stable 1.0.0.0. First time I downloaded .deb packages of \
1.2, but they corrupted my dependencies. After some months I started to use the \
binary installer, it works so I'm happy. OpenOffice.org -I use bnary installer, i \
rather didn't try .debs  Time goes around and I use OOo intensively. But wait, the \
fonts are all bad! Yes, OOo team recognised it as Debian error. But adviced to copy \
Window$ ttf fonts to /opt/Open.../share/fonts/truetype. Yes, the Window$ fonts work \
better than Debian ones. And the crippled fonts in OpenOffice.org menus can be easily \
corrected by ReplaceFonts option in OOo. Replace Interface User by Arial or so and \
menus have working diacritics. Smart guys those in OOo, I'm lucky they added such \
feature to OOo..  What about sound? Wanna sound? No, it dosen't play. XMMS claims \
that someone is sitting on sound device. But whos'e the alien? Finally, months later \
I found on Internet how to discover who is using /dev/audio. And the name of the guy \
is ESOUND! Kill him! Uninstall him! Finally the sound plays! I can hear music! Wow! \
Why cannot my wife? She's in audio group exactly as me, but she's not allowed to \
play. I don't know.  Wanna burn a CD? Not so quickly, man! You must learn a lot! \
First find the right combination of kernel settings. Allow SCSI emulation, allow \
SCSI-CDROM but DON't allow the ATAPI-CDROM! With fresh new kernel You're sometimes \
able to burn with XCDROASTER, Eclipt is nicer but forgets the /dev/scd0 device \
everytime and cannot find it with no root.  Wanna grab cd? CDParanoia is fine, but \
You must use another 2.6 kernel, compiled WITH ATAPI-CD support. You cannot burn \
anymore, but can grab, an it's great.  Wanna print? What print interface is good for \
me? LPD or which one of the four? After half a year I finally found howto. The guy \
bravely stated, that I should forget anything but CUPS. Great, why didn't the Debian \
manual tell me the same, I could find the way much easier. The howto is really great, \
I can print! Even I can setup the OpenOffice to print too! Mozilla dosen't play with \
me, but never mind, OOo prints and it's enough pleasure for me this time.  I'm \
skilled enough to create CANCEL-PRINTING script that deletes the cups spool \
directory. Happy with that, because I couldn't cancel printing anyhow before. I'm \
happy, because I remember the times of Window$ printing that I was unable tho cancel. \
At least one thing where Debian is equally inconvenient with Window$ 98!  Glad to \
have learned fstab parameters to make filesystems working.  I started my way to thin \
clients and was troubled by tftpd. And then some ood howto adviced -use atftpd, it's \
much better. I used and the first time in my Debian quest it was pleasure to install \
something. All configuration options were easy to set up and even more, the atftpd \
really worked!  After studying howtos for few days, I was able to set up DHCPD and \
DNS with similar ease and success!  Squid nearly worked for first try, i just must \
have compare the squid.conf with old one I found on old server and allow the access. \
Pitty that he didn't ask me during setup.  Apache was not too trivial to set up, but \
I can imagine that PHP dosen't work in the reason of avoiding lamers to set up \
Apache.  
 - Q: Could you please provide one or two fantasy episodes of your life with
      Debian, if you were to make a movie or a comic strip about yourself as a
      Debian protagonist?
   A: 


 - Q: What Debian distribution are you using?
   A: Woody


 - Q: What do you think people use Debian for?
   A: server-only. It's way too hard to configure the desktop, and features too \
ancient packages to be useful at desktop, except some basic tasks.

 
 - Q: What is the thing you most frequently use Debian for?
   A: Browse (Mozilla), write (OpenOffice.org)


 - Q: What do you think is the most INTERESTING aspect or feature of Debian?
   A: This time, the security updates. This, and the stability is the most \
interesting thing that keeps me using Debian.


 - Q: Are there some aspects or features of Debian that do not satisfy you?
   A: The whole desktop setup. It's total crap in 21th century. Most basic things \
dosen't work without expert-level actions taken. Mouse, X server, locales, national \
keyboard, printing, sound, everything. It shouln't demand one engineer with 2-year \
Debian practise to setup an usable desktop.


 - Q: What do you think is the most USEFUL aspect or feature of Debian?
   A: The security updates using apt. And the cross-platform orientation. I installed \
it on two ancient HP RISC servers and it works! Nice one...


 - Q: Is there something you especially like doing with Debian?  What is it?
   A: Watching uptime and load parameters in top.


 - Q: Is there something you DO NOT like doing with Debian?  What is it?
   A: 1, Fighting for usable desktop.
	2, And waiting for Godot (next stable and more useful/less useless release). The \
woody sucks a lot at desktop, but I managed to be patient and since some package \
maintainers told me that some locales problems were fixed for Sarge, and I know the \
4.2, 4.3 X server have much better antialiasing than the grandpa 4.1, I have been \
waiting the next stable to arrive in summer of 2003. No, nothing happened, still the \
same (and new) battles with crappy desktop.  "The Sarge maybe in late 2003 or jan \
2004". Wow, I want it. Now, "Sarge will not be stable this year". Sh.t

 - Q: What is the MOST SUCCESSFUL deed you have achieved with Debian?
   A: Terminal server with DOSEMU app running, with thin client connected (local \
printer working).


 - Please take a moment to recall what is the WORST INCIDENT you had
   with Debian.

   Q: What was it?
   A: Apache+PHP

   Q: How did you get into it, and out of it?
   A: 	I tryed to install PHP and Openwebmail. I googled the right version of \
Openwebmail (the older one was too buggy and the new one needed the libraries \
unachiewable in Woody).  But the PHP just DIDN'T work. Three days of fighting, no \
progress. Looking at ancient HOWTOs, infinite reviewing the configs and finding the \
error that just wasn't there. Still displayed me the Apache welcome page and offered \
the PHP file for download.

	And then I watched DOSEMU mailing lists (no connection with either PHP or Apache) \
and found some problems with P4 that were solved by patch. Could it be...? I'm trying \
to run the PHP on Celeron P4 crap!  And there was the problem. On any other proc, it \
just worked, nothing goes on.. On Celeron -nada!  From that time, I don't try \
anything serious on P4 Celeron.


 - Imagine you have a crystal ball allowing you to see 10 years in the
   future, and have a look inside. 
   
   Q: Will you still be using Debian?
   A: Hope, but cannot imagine.

   Q: If yes, what will you be doing with it?
   A: All my work, hopefully.
   

 - Q: Finally, please feel free to leave any feedback to Debian Developers
   A: Please, try to finish the installer and RELEASE THE SARGE ASAP! Woody with \
cripled locales is here since 07/2002. It's nearly 05/2004. It's time for the first \
desktop capable Debian in history! Or are the "Debian on Desktop" efforts \
caterpillared to some "future releases"? 2007 maybe?  If someone wants to discover \
the GNU/Linux desktop and do the tasks he does everyday on W...ow$, I cannot give him \
a CD and say "here, try it, it's my favorite distro". Yes, Debian is the only distro \
I use, but without my technical support, it's just impossible to deploy it anywhere. \
Basic tasks like Open the attached file from Mozilla etc are the users unable to do \
without my prior assistance, set up and tweaking. And the GNOME 1.4 with X4.1 \
"antialiasing" is not something I want the world made the "Linux or not" decision at. \
I rather show the Mandrake (a bit of shame, a bit of sadness..)  I cannot imagine \
I'll build up the next 30+ users terminal server on anything else than Debian Woody. \
I have horror how will I solve the locales etc. problems with no-GNOME (perharps \
ICEWM) environment. Yes, I will fight because I like Debian. I cannot imagine other \
Linux on server I want to be fast, reliable, solid.



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