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List: cifs-protocol
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs - TrackingID#231019004000
From: Joseph Sutton via cifs-protocol <cifs-protocol () lists ! samba ! org>
Date: 2023-10-30 22:43:22
Message-ID: 72081269-5305-4b45-b91c-69fa32b2dcf8 () samba ! org
[Download RAW message or body]
Thank you, that’s what I was looking to know.
Regards,
Joseph
On 31/10/23 11:36 am, Jeff McCashland (He/him) wrote:
> Hi Joseph,
>
> I was able to debug the time travel trace, and determined the cause of failure. It \
> appears that an RODC PAC cannot be used for an access check.
> Best regards,
> Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open \
> Specifications Team
> Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific \
> Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here: \
> http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish | Extension 1138300
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2023 9:56 AM
> To: Joseph Sutton <jsutton@samba.org>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail@microsoft.com>
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs - \
> TrackingID#2310190040000616
> Hi Joseph,
>
> Thank you for uploading the traces. I will analyze them and get back to you.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open \
> Specifications Team
> Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific \
> Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here: \
> http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish | Extension 1138300
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Sutton <jsutton@samba.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 23, 2023 5:49 PM
> To: Jeff McCashland (He/him) <jeffm@microsoft.com>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail@microsoft.com>
> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs - \
> TrackingID#2310190040000616
> Hi,
>
> I’ve uploaded a trace of a Kerberos TGS exchange with a TGT issued by an RODC \
> krbtgt and with an authentication policy enforced. In response to the TGS-REQ I \
> expect to get a TGS-REP, but, as the trace shows, I get a KDC_ERR_POLICY error \
> instead.
> Regards,
> Joseph
>
> On 20/10/23 11:50 am, Jeff McCashland (He/him) wrote:
> > Hi Joseph,
> >
> > To debug this issue, I need to collect an LSASS TTT trace. I have created a file \
> > transfer workspace for exchanging files related to this issue (link below).
> > The LSASS traces can be quite large, but are highly compressible, so please add \
> > them to a .zip archive before uploading (file transfer workspace credentials are \
> > below). Please log into the workspace and find PartnerTTDRecorder_x86_x64.zip \
> > available for download. The x64 tool can be staged onto the Windows server in any \
> > location (instructions below assume C:\TTD).
> > To collect the needed traces:
> > 1. From a PowerShell prompt, execute:
> > C:\TTD\tttracer.exe -Attach ([int](Get-Process -NAME lsass | Format-Wide \
> > -Property ID).formatEntryInfo.formatPropertyField.propertyValue) 2. Wait for a \
> > little window to pop up in top left corner of your screen, titled “lsass01.run” \
> > 3. start a network trace using netsh or WireShark, etc. 4. Repro the attempted \
> > operation 5. Stop the network trace and save it
> > 6. CAREFULLY: uncheck the checkbox next to “Tracing” in the small “lsass01.run” \
> > window. Do not close or exit the small window or you will need to reboot. 7. The \
> > TTTracer.exe process will generate a trace file, then print out the name and \
> > location of the file. Compress the *.run file into a .zip archive before \
> > uploading with the matching network trace. It is a good idea to reboot the \
> > machine at the next opportunity to restart the lsass process.
> > Workspace credentials:
> > Log in as 2310190040000616_joseph@dtmxfer.onmicrosoft.com
> > 1-Time: 9dx_7ndz
> >
> > Workspace link:
> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsupp
> > ort.microsoft.com%2Ffiles%3Fworkspace%3DeyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJSUz
> > I1NiJ9.eyJ3c2lkIjoiNWQ2YjE2MzgtYzU5Ni00N2ZhLTkxNDQtN2QzMzMzNmJmNTlhIiw
> > ic3IiOiIyMzEwMTkwMDQwMDAwNjE2IiwiYXBwaWQiOiI0ZTc2ODkxZC04NDUwLTRlNWUtY
> > mUzOC1lYTNiZDZlZjIxZTUiLCJzdiI6InYxIiwicnMiOiJFeHRlcm5hbCIsInd0aWQiOiJ
> > mNDdhMTY0ZS1jYjFiLTQ2MGQtYjczZS03YWZmZDEwY2Q0YTAiLCJpc3MiOiJodHRwczovL
> > 2FwaS5kdG1uZWJ1bGEubWljcm9zb2Z0LmNvbSIsImF1ZCI6Imh0dHA6Ly9zbWMiLCJleHA
> > iOjE3MDU1MzEzMzIsIm5iZiI6MTY5Nzc1NTMzMn0.U82nOV5WR7AK7pNvLhlCsTkcMPfZV
> > 9NouoJlJQYbNJeQQ3w5XBrCsAxLolvtXVt85zVs6YDkmF4gN2NxH2GW4DP46UsENY1-Qg4
> > RQ3omGdfy4aqTOprhdzBdDegmq0IDCnz_dB862F_fzkiMtyuMoACCPGFpnufedw5X4a8IV
> > SfdST9enEREWlH1TQHE7KsWKgvJ7aPydEdYoOUDatQ1annMYfhbGttsrXXZfbsSlc1-l5j
> > hGPs9RtGqpgzycy3m9VftAbGjpz4em-_nFAADznArzn4dnIitRjH2zulc-fQRCraq6cgwK
> > J6BJrxh9BE_4Qq7xjXP4EsSMcB40wE8Kg%26wid%3D5d6b1638-c596-47fa-9144-7d33
> > 336bf59a&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%7Cd2df6639c0f2400841be08
> > dbd42b0baf%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C63833705359329
> > 2016%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
> > iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HP0vNpnaAV3ThmBh%2FoKY
> > aZ3ae5ZwfG1weaghACVYfZQ%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft
> > Protocol Open Specifications Team
> > Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:
> > (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number
> > found here:
> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> > rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%
> > 7Cd2df6639c0f2400841be08dbd42b0baf%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%
> > 7C1%7C0%7C638337053593302820%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
> > DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdat
> > a=klokoLuopKUqNnv7a4km5xKm3HvBVccLEHIWkByzKlo%3D&reserved=0 |
> > Extension 1138300
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)
> > Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 10:01 AM
> > To: Joseph Sutton <jsutton@samba.org>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> > Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail@microsoft.com>
> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs -
> > TrackingID#2310190040000616
> >
> > Hi Joseph,
> >
> > I will research your issue and get back to you.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft
> > Protocol Open Specifications Team
> > Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:
> > (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number
> > found here:
> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> > rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%
> > 7Cd2df6639c0f2400841be08dbd42b0baf%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%
> > 7C1%7C0%7C638337053593308176%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
> > DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdat
> > a=co7GonF9LAU7bMkiJsT4roGw1FtCCbGIrgrgsqWCnBs%3D&reserved=0 |
> > Extension 1138300
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff McCashland (He/him)
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:52 PM
> > To: Joseph Sutton <jsutton@samba.org>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> > Cc: Microsoft Support <supportmail@microsoft.com>
> > Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs -
> > TrackingID#2310190040000616
> >
> > [DocHelp to BCC, support on CC, SR ID on Subject]
> >
> > Hi Joseph,
> >
> > Thank you for your email. We have created SR 2310190040000616 to track this \
> > issue. One of our engineers will respond soon.
> > Best regards,
> > Jeff McCashland (He/him) | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft
> > Protocol Open Specifications Team
> > Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:
> > (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number
> > found here:
> > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> > rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=05%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.com%
> > 7Cd2df6639c0f2400841be08dbd42b0baf%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%
> > 7C1%7C0%7C638337053593312064%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM
> > DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdat
> > a=DLIBS5nA9hhCc9Hf21UgymI2%2FwQoFRadqEBz54UYQwc%3D&reserved=0 |
> > Extension 1138300
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joseph Sutton <jsutton@samba.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 6:44 PM
> > To: cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org; Interoperability Documentation Help
> > <dochelp@microsoft.com>
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [MS-KILE] Authentication Policies and RODCs
> >
> > [Some people who received this message don't often get email from
> > jsutton@samba.org. Learn why this is important at
> > https://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification ]
> >
> > Hi dochelp,
> >
> > [MS-KILE] 3.3.5.7, “TGS Exchange”, states that if during a TGS Exchange an \
> > Authentication Policy with ‘AllowedToAuthenticateTo’ is in effect, the user and \
> > device PACs must be used to perform an access check: if the access check \
> > succeeds, a service ticket is issued to the client; if it fails, the KDC returns \
> > KDC_ERR_POLICY.
> > However, I have found that Windows Server 2019, acting as a RWDC,
> > *always* returns KDC_ERR_POLICY if the client’s TGT presented to the KDC has been \
> > issued by an RODC.
> > If no ‘AllowedToAuthenticateTo’ policy is enforced, or the client’s TGT has been \
> > issued by a RWDC, the TGS‐REQ exchange is successful.
> > As far as I can tell, this behaviour — disallowing the combination of \
> > authentication policies and RODC‐issued tickets — is not documented anywhere. Is \
> > matching this behaviour important for the correct and secure operation of MS-KILE \
> > implementations? and if so, can it be clearly documented in [MS-KILE]?
> > Regards,
> > Joseph
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