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List: cifs-protocol
Subject: Re: [cifs-protocol] [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call - TrackingID#2106010040000444
From: Jeff McCashland via cifs-protocol <cifs-protocol () lists ! samba ! org>
Date: 2021-06-18 17:05:20
Message-ID: MW4PR21MB19063B0FEF79188ED5F68D21A30D9 () MW4PR21MB1906 ! namprd21 ! prod ! outlook ! com
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Hi Douglas,
Just to put a wrap on this issue...
Aging and scavenging applies to individual resource records, and the scavenging \
process is to delete the record. This triggers a timer on the dnsNode to kick off the \
tombstoning process. Tombstoned nodes are kept around for a period of time to allow \
replication the expired status of the node to other servers.
Please let me know if you have further questions on the StartScavenging RPC call. \
Otherwise, I'll consider this issue closed.
Best regards,
Jeff McCashland | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications \
Team
Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific \
Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here: \
http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish | Extension 1138300 We value your \
feedback. My manager is Natesha Morrison (namorri), +1 (704) 430-4292
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff McCashland
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 9:26 AM
To: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
Cc: Jeff McCashland <jeffm@microsoftsupport.com>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call - \
TrackingID#2106010040000444
Resending to get into the list.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff McCashland
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 11:48 AM
To: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
Cc: Jeff McCashland <jeffm@microsoftsupport.com>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call - \
TrackingID#2106010040000444
Hi Douglas,
It doesn't appear to me that there is any connection between the Tombstone process \
and Scavenging/Aging. Surprisingly, these appear to be separate methods of clearing \
out stale records. In Windows, the processes are handled by separate code that \
doesn't appear connected.
Best regards,
Jeff McCashland | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open Specifications \
Team
Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone: (UTC-08:00) Pacific \
Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number found here: \
http://support.microsoft.com/globalenglish | Extension 1138300 We value your \
feedback. My manager is Natesha Morrison (namorri), +1 (704) 430-4292
-----Original Message-----
From: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 11:40 PM
To: Jeff McCashland <jeffm@microsoft.com>; cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
Cc: Jeff McCashland <jeffm@microsoftsupport.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call - \
TrackingID#2106010040000444
thanks Jeff.
I am not quite sure if the second of the two steps you mention is the one described \
at "DsTombstoneInterval" (under 3.1.1.1.1), or another implementation specific \
process that precedes that.
If that process is part of "scavenging", the description should reflect that nodes \
can be tombstoned by RPC calls, so time intervals and aging don't necessarily come \
into it.
cheers,
Douglas
On 9/06/21 10:05 am, Jeff McCashland wrote:
> Hi Douglas,
>
> Based on my read of the code, the 'scavenging process' is a combination of a) and \
> b). Initially, resource records that have expired are added to a list of required \
> updates. When a sufficient number of records are expired, then they are removed \
> (deleted) from the database. Also, the delete may be forced by an Admin process or \
> due to Zone state. I don't think we can reliably say how long it will take a record \
> to 'disappear' once it's expired.
> The description of scavenging in the doc is confusing. In the description for \
> 'aging', it mentions "scavenging, a process for cleaning out not-recently used \
> records.", and in: 2.2.5.2.4.1 DNS_RPC_ZONE_INFO_W2K
> "Records that have not been refreshed by the expiration of this interval are \
> eligible to be removed during the next scavenging cycle performed by the DNS \
> server."
> Also confusing:
> UpdateScavenge (4 bytes): The number of in-memory nodes modified as a result of a \
> scavenging cycle.
> It seems like we were weakly describing the 2-phase update process without actually \
> describing it. However, I believe this is an implementation detail, and it's up to \
> the server to remove the records immediately or batch the deletes.
> It may be less confusing to say:
> scavenging: A regularly scheduled process in which database records are removed if \
> they have not been updated within a certain time interval, measured by the process \
> that checks whether current time exceeds the record's time stamp value.
> I will file a request to update the document and follow up. Let me know if you have \
> any further questions on scavenging.
> Best regards,
> Jeff McCashland | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open
> Specifications Team
> Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:
> (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number
> found here:
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=04%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.
> com%7C87717c3a878d4b524fa308d92b116fba%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> b47%7C1%7C0%7C637588176159674012%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
> jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata
> =OXKH13FBlt9J4MlmvSPTH7FSQca2QwYCJ8dNpJlJT0k%3D&reserved=0 |
> Extension 1138300 We value your feedback. My manager is Natesha
> Morrison (namorri), +1 (704) 430-4292
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff McCashland
> Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 11:07 AM
> To: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>;
> cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> Cc: jeffm@microsoftsupport.com
> Subject: [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call -
> TrackingID#2106010040000444
>
> [Sree to BCC, support alias on CC, SR ID on Subject]
>
> Hi Douglas,
>
> I will research your questions about StartScavenging, and let you know what I find.
>
> Best regards,
> Jeff McCashland | Senior Escalation Engineer | Microsoft Protocol Open
> Specifications Team
> Phone: +1 (425) 703-8300 x38300 | Hours: 9am-5pm | Time zone:
> (UTC-08:00) Pacific Time (US and Canada) Local country phone number
> found here:
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsuppo
> rt.microsoft.com%2Fglobalenglish&data=04%7C01%7Cjeffm%40microsoft.
> com%7C87717c3a878d4b524fa308d92b116fba%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011d
> b47%7C1%7C0%7C637588176159674012%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wL
> jAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata
> =OXKH13FBlt9J4MlmvSPTH7FSQca2QwYCJ8dNpJlJT0k%3D&reserved=0 |
> Extension 1138300 We value your feedback. My manager is Natesha
> Morrison (namorri), +1 (704) 430-4292
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sreekanth Nadendla <srenaden@microsoft.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 8:53 PM
> To: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>;
> cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> Subject: 2106010040000444 [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call
>
> Dochelp in Bcc
>
> Hello Douglas, thank you for your question regarding the MS-DNSP specification. We \
> have created incident 2106010040000444 to track the investigation. One of the open \
> specifications team member will contact you shortly.
> Regards,
> Sreekanth Nadendla
> Microsoft Windows Open Specifications
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas Bagnall <douglas.bagnall@catalyst.net.nz>
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2021 10:45 PM
> To: Interoperability Documentation Help <dochelp@microsoft.com>;
> cifs-protocol@lists.samba.org
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [MS-DNSP] StartScavenging RPC call
>
> hi Dochelp,
>
> I would like some clarification of the StartScavenging Operation as mentioned in \
> 3.1.4.1 R_DnssrvOperation (and implied in R_DnssrvOperation2, etc).
> The fullest description of the call is:
>
> > If pszOperation is StartScavenging, the server MUST initiate a resource record \
> > scavenging cycle on the DNS server, and return success.
>
> While in another place (3.1.1.1.1, discussing ScavengingInterval), it
> says
>
> > If the value is non-zero and a StartScavenging operation is initiated, the value \
> > is ignored and scavenging begins immediately.
>
> The terms I would like clarification on are "resource record scavenging"
> and "begins immediately".
>
> Does "resource record scavenging" refer to:
>
> a) turning stale dynamic records into DNS tombstones when aging is enabled for the \
> zone and server.
> b) removing tombstoned nodes and records after the appropriate time.
>
> c) both a) and b).
>
> d) something else?
>
>
> Does "begins immediately" imply a scavengable DNS resource should disappear within \
> a few seconds on an unloaded server with a very small zone? Or does the "resource \
> record scavenging cycle" have aspects that mean this is not expected?
> cheers,
> Douglas
>
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