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List:       busybox
Subject:    systemd bashing (man it feels good) (was: [PATCH 0/3] less: display ANSI colors with option -R)
From:       Laurent Bercot <ska-dietlibc () skarnet ! org>
Date:       2014-01-24 10:13:18
Message-ID: 52E23CBE.7060308 () skarnet ! org
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On 2014-01-24 06:16, Denys Vlasenko wrote:
> Admit it - "traditional" SysV init is neanderthal.
> Not merely "simple" (that's not a bad thing!) - but
> awkward too.

  Oh, I totally agree - I wrote s6, remember ? And I'm so much
more interested in getting the design and the code right than
in seeing it widely adopted that I didn't even take the time to
promote it - just the opposite of Lennart - which is obviously
a huge oversight. systemd was so obviously inane and insane to me
that I didn't even consider it could make it that big.


> My objection to Pottering's onslaught on Linux is not on the basis
> that he writes buggy code.
>
> My objection is that he tends to write *monolithic* code.
> systemd requires dbus. systemd includes logging daemon.

  That's exactly what I meant by "broken by design".
  See http://skarnet.org/software/s6/why.html and
  http://skarnet.org/software/s6/s6-svscan-not-1.html#systemd :)

  Lennart's quest for change disregards not only the current
conventions (which is not a bad thing to do per se), but also the most
basic software design principles as well as the core of the Unix
philosophy. This guy should apply at Microsoft, they'd love him there.


> It goes farther than that. Some things don't merely live
> in tools which systemd requires (e.g. dbus). A lot of crap is
> _in systemd_!
> (...)
> What the hell *TCP wrappers* or *udev* have to do with
> *init binary*?????
> (...)

  Amen, brother, amen.
  But I'm afraid you and I will be preaching to the choir here.
  It's not the busybox mailing-list that we need to convince,
it's the major Linux distributions. I have no idea how a piece
of software that I wouldn't give a D to as an undergraduate
student project made it into Fedora and Arch Linux, is threatening
the whole GNU ecosystem, and is making countless people waste
countless hours trying to integrate it while keeping a pretense
of modularity.

  I'm not good at advocacy - waging political wars is bothersome
and tiresome to me, and writing good code is a much better use of
my time. But someone who is, and who has a tiny bit of sense of what
good engineering is, should definitely step up and expose the
systemd fraud, and I'm all willing, as I'm sure you are, to provide
the detailed technical arguments.

-- 
  Laurent

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