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List:       bitcoin-dev
Subject:    Re: [bitcoin-dev] [Lightning-dev]   Removing the Dust Limit
From:       ZmnSCPxj via bitcoin-dev <bitcoin-dev () lists ! linuxfoundation ! org>
Date:       2021-08-21 3:10:46
Message-ID: 50s2eg2qZ_BSHhI1mT_mHP7fkDQ8EXnakOb9NmDfZlx_hN44l37UmopfAr2V4ws4yhx0YihNYBIOelJ01vhITI8K4G1UgmobTwf9FyJq_Yo= () protonmail ! com
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Good morning Jeremy,

> one interesting point that came up at the bitdevs in austin today that favors \
> remove that i believe is new to this discussion (it was new to me): 
> the argument can be reduced to:
> 
> - dust limit is a per-node relay policy.
> - it is rational for miners to mine dust outputs given their cost of maintenance \
> (storing the output potentially forever) is lower than their immediate reward in \
>                 fees.
> - if txn relaying nodes censor something that a miner would mine, users will seek a \
>                 private/direct relay to the miner and vice versa.
> - if direct relay to miner becomes popular, it is both bad for privacy and \
>                 decentralization.
> - therefore the dust limit, should there be demand to create dust at prevailing \
> mempool feerates, causes an incentive to increase network centralization \
> (immediately) 
> the tradeoff is if a short term immediate incentive to promote network \
> centralization is better or worse than a long term node operator overhead.

Against the above, we should note that in the Lightning spec, when an output *would \
have been* created that is less than the dust limit, the output is instead put into \
fees. https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lightning-rfc/blob/master/03-transactions.md#trimmed-outputs


Thus, the existence of a dust limit encourages L2 protocols to have similar rules, \
where outputs below the dust limit are just given over as fees to miners, so the \
existence of a dust limit might very well be incentivize-compatible for miners, \
regardless of centralization effects or not.


Regards,
ZmnSCPxj
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