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List: bacula-users
Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] PKI Signatures working?
From: Ana_EmÃlia_M._Arruda <emiliaarruda () gmail ! com>
Date: 2015-09-25 1:48:56
Message-ID: CAAh-UZaDD1KmBQ+tQjUAWd5Cw2u4Yi0aNGb3dtW8ant8F0yEeA () mail ! gmail ! com
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Hello Kern,
Thank you. I did not remember to mention about the TLS Authentication. And
this is a possibility of verifying the client (peer/FD) before data
exchange between daemons.
I thought that Markus was talking about data authenticity and not FD
authentication. In the first case, the goal is to assure the source of the
data. This can be achieved using a MAC (Message Authentication Code) or pki
digital signatures. The TLS Authentication (TLS Verify Peer = yes) used by
bacula daemons are intended for entity authentication, which means that
they (daemons) are sure that the other entity (the other daemon) they are
talking to is who they believe to be.
In the case of a message authentication, in this case a backup data
authentication or an entire volume authentication, the only way I see that
is treated by the bacula cryptography implementation is when the data sent
by the client is also encrypted (a crypto session is created for sending
the data encrypted). That means that your data is firstly encrypted and
then signed by FD. This assures data confidentiality, integrity and
authenticity through the use of pki digital signatures.
I undesrtood that Markus was talking about generating a MAC or a hash+pki
signature of the data sent by FD. And I was not able to see this in the
bacula crypto open code. Also, in this case, the restore FD that was
receiving the data from the first FD must have the public key of the FD
that originated the data (in the case of a pki signature) or the symmetric
key used in the case of a MAC.
Hope this helps a little more to clarify this thread.
Best regards,
Ana
On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Kern Sibbald <kern@sibbald.com> wrote:
> Hello Ana,
>
> I have not followed this thread in detail, but if the user wants more
> security in verifying the FD, it is possible to enable TLSAuthentication
> without enabling TLS on transmitted data, and in that case, in addition to
> the regular MD5 authentication Bacula will do TLSAuthentication but then
> not use TLS for the rest of the data transmission.
>
> Best regards,
> Kern
>
>
> On 15-09-23 04:27 PM, Ana EmÃlia M. Arruda wrote:
>
> Complementing my previous post, MD5 and SHA1 do not make use of pki
> signatures from bacula crypto lib. They are hashes used for integrity
> verification and not for authenticity verification.
>
> Best regards,
> Ana
>
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Ana EmÃlia M. Arruda <
> <emiliaarruda@gmail.com>emiliaarruda@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Markus,
> >
> > I ´m quite sure that it is not possible to have pki signature without pki
> > encryption. You can have computation of MD5 and SHA1 signature of the file
> > if configured in your FileSet. When dealing with pki signatures, this works
> > only when you use pki encryption. I mean, the encrypted data at file daemon
> > is signed before sent to storage daemon.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ana
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Markus Falb < <markus.falb@fasel.at>
> > markus.falb@fasel.at> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Bacula Users,
> > >
> > > I am trying pki signatures without pki encryption off.
> > > In my fd config I have
> > >
> > > FileDaemon {
> > > Name = x-fd
> > > ...
> > > pki signatures = yes
> > > pki encryption = no
> > > pki keypair = /etc/pki/tls/private/x-fd.pem # with CN=x-fd
> > > }
> > >
> > > I have a second machine y-fd with equivalent config.
> > >
> > > I make a Backup of x-fd.
> > >
> > > I do a restore of this backup but I change the restore host to y-fd, and
> > > it works, and that surprises me because y-fd should not be able to
> > > verify the signature made with the private key from x-fd, it does not
> > > know the public key of x-fd, right?
> > >
> > > I wonder how this is supposed to work.
> > > +
> > > I don't even know if a signature was made in the first place and how to
> > > verify that.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kind Regards, Markus Falb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Monitor Your Dynamic Infrastructure at Any Scale With Datadog!
> > > Get real-time metrics from all of your servers, apps and tools
> > > in one place.
> > > SourceForge users - Click here to start your Free Trial of Datadog now!
> > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=241902991&iu=/4140
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bacula-users mailing list
> > > Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
[Attachment #5 (text/html)]
<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Hello \
Kern,</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Thank you. I did not remember to mention about \
the TLS Authentication. And this is a possibility of verifying the client (peer/FD) \
before data exchange between daemons.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I thought that Markus was talking about data \
authenticity and not FD authentication. In the first case, the goal is to assure the \
source of the data. This can be achieved using a MAC (Message Authentication Code) or \
pki digital signatures. The TLS Authentication (TLS Verify Peer = yes) used by bacula \
daemons are intended for entity authentication, which means that they (daemons) are \
sure that the other entity (the other daemon) they are talking to is who they believe \
to be.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">In the case of a message authentication, in \
this case a backup data authentication or an entire volume authentication, the only \
way I see that is treated by the bacula cryptography implementation is when the data \
sent by the client is also encrypted (a crypto session is created for sending the \
data encrypted). That means that your data is firstly encrypted and then signed by \
FD. This assures data confidentiality, integrity and authenticity through the use of \
pki digital signatures.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I undesrtood that Markus was talking about \
generating a MAC or a hash+pki signature of the data sent by FD. And I was not able \
to see this in the bacula crypto open code. Also, in this case, the restore FD that \
was receiving the data from the first FD must have the public key of the FD that \
originated the data (in the case of a pki signature) or the symmetric key used in the \
case of a MAC.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Hope this helps a little more to clarify this \
thread.</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Best regards,</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Ana</div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div \
class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 24, 2015 at 7:16 PM, Kern Sibbald <span \
dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kern@sibbald.com" \
target="_blank">kern@sibbald.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote \
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc \
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>Hello Ana,<br>
<br>
I have not followed this thread in detail, but if the user wants
more security in verifying the FD, it is possible to enable
TLSAuthentication without enabling TLS on transmitted data, and in
that case, in addition to the regular MD5 authentication Bacula
will do TLSAuthentication but then not use TLS for the rest of the
data transmission.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Kern<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 15-09-23 04:27 PM, Ana EmÃlia M. Arruda wrote:<br>
</div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Complementing my previous post, MD5 and SHA1 \
do not make use of pki signatures from bacula crypto lib. They are hashes used for
integrity verification and not for authenticity verification.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Best
regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Ana</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Ana
EmÃlia M. Arruda <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:emiliaarruda@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a \
href="mailto:emiliaarruda@gmail.com" \
target="_blank">emiliaarruda@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px \
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Hello \
Markus,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">I ´m \
quite sure that it is not possible to have pki signature without
pki encryption. You can have computation of MD5 and SHA1
signature of the file if configured in your FileSet.
When dealing with pki signatures, this works only when
you use pki encryption. I mean, the encrypted data at
file daemon is signed before sent to storage daemon.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Best \
regards,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Ana</div> <div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default" \
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><br> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at
5:30 AM, Markus Falb <span dir="ltr"><<a \
href="mailto:markus.falb@fasel.at" target="_blank"></a><a \
href="mailto:markus.falb@fasel.at" \
target="_blank">markus.falb@fasel.at</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 \
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Bacula Users,<br> <br>
I am trying pki signatures without pki
encryption off.<br>
In my fd config I have<br>
<br>
FileDaemon {<br>
Name = x-fd<br>
...<br>
pki signatures = yes<br>
pki encryption = no<br>
pki keypair =
/etc/pki/tls/private/x-fd.pem # with CN=x-fd<br>
}<br>
<br>
I have a second machine y-fd with equivalent
config.<br>
<br>
I make a Backup of x-fd.<br>
<br>
I do a restore of this backup but I change the
restore host to y-fd, and<br>
it works, and that surprises me because y-fd
should not be able to<br>
verify the signature made with the private key
from x-fd, it does not<br>
know the public key of x-fd, right?<br>
<br>
I wonder how this is supposed to work.<br>
+<br>
I don't even know if a signature was made in the
first place and how to<br>
verify that.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Kind Regards, Markus Falb<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote> </div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
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<pre>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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in one place.
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